Has anyone ever had to choose between Vassar and Macalester? Any helpful advice?
Have you been able to visit both?
My S is admitted to both and visited both (as have I). He (and I) definitely prefer Vassar. The campus feels much bigger and is much more beautiful, the student body size is a bit bigger, and the academic offerings are more expansive. Add to that a significantly higher rank according to most of the established rankings, greater economic and racial diversity, nicer climate, spectacular library, and reasonable proximity to NYC, and the choice is pretty clear (IMHO). That said, Macalester is a terrific school, and for some programs (particularly International Relations) it is absolutely top notch.
I don’t know anything about Macalester, but your assessment of Vassar seems correct. Also: Vassar has no core curriculum to speak of. I think maybe just a writing course. The students can focus on what they feel is important. Proximity to NYC means proximity to many things international: the UN, various societies (such as the Japan Foundation, Asia Society,etc.) You can go and return from NYC in one day to meet with people or to attend an event. You can also get internships in the City more easily–alumni relations are strong.
Is there a difference in cost?
We have visited Vassar - loved the campus and the programs, weren’t too fond of the immediate surrounding area.
We will be visiting Mac this summer so I can’t really say anything about it except that the neighborhood looks quite nice. Statistically, it seems more diverse than the average LAC, but I’m not sure how the numbers compare with Vassar.
Tuition is very slightly higher at Vassar, but Vassar is also known for having pretty generous financial aid. Vassar is a little more ethnically diverse than Macalester, and is definitely more economically diverse.
The neighborhood around Mac is definitely nice when the weather is warm enough to enjoy it. The little area immediately adjacent to Vassar (Arlington) is also very nice if a bit smaller-but with a surprisingly wide array of nice unpretentious restaurants and shops. The city of Poughkeepsie has areas that are a little sketchy but also has some great upscale restaurants in part due to the proximity to the Culinary Institute of America.
The Vassar campus is stunningly beautiful.
mamaedefamilia - I haven’t visited Mac, but my husband and daughter were there for three days. I think the location is is what won my daughter over - she signed on the dotted line last night! So many great things within walking distance, an urban bike path right around the corner, and it is in a major city with tons of arts. Of course, NYC is much more major with a lot more arts, but it is a 1.5-2 hour train ride away, depending on whether you take Amtrak (more expensive) or Metro North (commuter train). We live in another semi-depressed Upstate New York city, so daughter didn’t look at Vassar, but as a resident of a similar city, I can tell you that there is probably a lot more to offer in Poughkeepsie than it looks at first glance. As we say here, “it isn’t much to look at, but it is very comfortable.” People from the suburbs are nervous about Poughkeepsie because it is a bit derelict, but it is mostly safe, and the area around Vassar is very safe with several cute, inexpensive food joints within easy walking distance.
Not me, but a friend who visited both said that he was turned off by the student body at Vassar. He ended up going to Macalester. I think this might be one of those things where a visit to each schools is what will really help you narrow down your choices.
I agree a visit to both would be helpful, though I know it isn’t always possible. I just didn’t get ‘the feeling’ at Vassar I got at Macalester. I did think the campus was beautiful, and Poughkeepsie was fine. But the train ride to NYC was loooong. I really wanted that city vibe, and Macalester was right in the thick of things. They, too, talk about all the internship possiblities available to students. Plus, I really enjoyed the talks I had with teachers and students. Good luck with your decision!
IMHO, the bulk of your time in college is spent on the campus (especially if the campus is nice). The proximity of a city should be secondary to the quality of the academic offerings, diversity of the student body, and the climate (both intellectual and actual). By those measures Vassar is pretty incredible. Additionally, the nearness of NYC provides access to faculty and opportunities that are hard to match.
I only agree but so much bzzzbzzz. If you hate big cities, you probably shouldn’t got to a place like Boston University, NYU or Macalester. If you really want to be in the thick of things, then a school like Grinnell or Bard probably won’t work well for you. Most students are somewhere in the middle, and then your advice holds, but for people who are really looking for an idyllic college campus experience or for a place in the middle of a city, not taking location into account can make for a lot of blue feelings during the four years.
Mac isn’t exactly in a big city. You can’t compare it to NYU or BU in that respect. Mac’s location is unique, I think. It is in a neighborhood along stately Summit Avenue in St. Paul. It is a short bus hop to either downtown, as it is right between Minneapolis & St Paul, also an easy bike ride or bus to the urban Mississippi River bike or walking paths.
The neighborhoods right around Mac are nice and quite safe – I used to live in one. Lots of turn of the century houses, families with kids. There are quite a few restaurants and shops right near campus, too.
Mac has a distinct international flavor that is different from many LACs, too.
You are correct in that Mac’s location isn’t in the middle of the city, but Minneapolis-Saint Paul has a larger population than Boston, so not necessarily a place for someone who doesn’t like cities.
Boston has about 655,000 people within 48 square miles. Minneapolis has a population of 407,000 within 58 square miles. St. Paul has a population of just under 300K within 56 square miles. So the population density of Boston is roughly half that of the Twin Cities.
True, both are major metro areas, but Twin Cities and immediate environs are more spread out and have a somewhat different feel.
I realize the OP has made his decision by now, but for others weighing this or a similar choice . . .
I’ve never visited Vassar, but Macalester’s location in St. Paul almost felt suburban to me. Inner-ring and affluent, but still suburban to my sensibilities coming from Philadelphia.
Regardless, I think with any LAC, you really must visit. They each have their own unique characteristics and “feel” in my experience. They’re both great schools; nobody can tell you which is “better” for you.
In terms of population density, Mac’s neighborhood may feel a little like some parts of suburban Philly, such as Bryn Mawr. 100 years ago, the neighborhood really was a suburb halfway between the two downtowns of the Twin Cities. “Suburbs” were different then. But in terms of cool things to do, varied people walking around, and proximity to other vibrant neighborhoods, Mac is far more urban than any Philly suburb I’ve ever seen. Mac’s neighborhood is also nicer and more interesting than Poughkeepsie, in my opinion. If you don’t spend a few hours around Mac you can miss part of what it has to offer because there are interesting blocks that are walking distance from campus in multiple directions.
But Vassar has a vastly prettier campus. It also seems to have a more robust arts scene.
Getting to NYC from Poughkeepsie is a real trek. Unless you had friends or family in NYC, you rarely would just spontaniously jump in a car and go to NYC on a Saturday night.
I don’t think there are any neighborhoods in the Twin Cities that are as dense and action packed as Kenmore Square in Boston or Greenwich Village in New York. The Theatre and Warehouse Districts in downtown Minneapolis are pretty busy. So is Uptown, but the train lines don’t go there.
I know this is kind of an old post, but I am wondering if Macalester’s location might feel similar to Lewis and Clark’s, just outside Portland? We visited Lewis and Clark, because people say it’s “in Portland” and I prefer an urban location, but L&C did not feel urban at all - it’s a nice surburban neighborhood with decent access to Portland proper. I’m interested in Macalester, too, so if anyone has feedback, I’d appreciate it. Thanks!
@tr831, never been to Portland, but I would describe the feel of Macalester as a (very nice!) inner-ring suburb of St. Paul, at least by my northeastern sensibilities. It didn’t feel nearly as “gritty” - or busy - as Penn’s campus, for example.
LucieTheLakie describes it about about right. Macalester is in St. Paul, but not downtown. There are tons of things to walk to, but it is a somewhat upscale neighborhood. That said, a half mile up or down and it does get more gritty although not dangerous, as far as I can tell, although there has been at least one assault and robbery of a Mac student during the day this year in an adjacent neighborhood. The area is more low-rise buildings - not the shiny high rises you see more in Minneapolis. There are a couple of major city bus routes that stop on campus, and it is a short walk to the light rail.
Mac is not exactly urban or suburban. In one direction is a street with big, beautiful homes and lots of trees, like a wealthy suburb. But in another, there are lots if stores and restaurants and access to public transportation. It’s a great location for anyone who wants a LAC that isn’t isolated.
Mac is my daughter’s second choice after Vassar. Vassar won the top spot because of distance and the open curriculum. And the similarities to Hogwarts.