D20 will be a junior at a LAC next fall. They allow students to have one major with zero, one or two minors or a double major with no minor. She recently declared her major (History) and found herself an advisor. She has varied interests and is currently considering a second major (International Relations) but she is also in a position where she could easily do a double minor (IR and Asian Studies). She has no interest in CS, other STEM departments or anything most posters on CC would consider “employable”…and she has no idea what she wants to do for a career other than a list of what she doesn’t want to do. As of right now, she is not looking at grad school programs.
Is there a difference in career options or hireability for a double major or major/minor or major/double minor? Once you eliminate STEM majors, does the department matter much at all? (Please don’t misunderstand! I love LACs and was a humanities major myself! I just want her to be happy and wonder if knocking herself out with tons of extra 300/400 level classes when she could take things just for fun electives.)
Does your daughter have any interest in doing something in international affairs or related to East Asia? If so, then I think it could be beneficial to have some designation on her diploma that reflects that. If she doesn’t however, then I think she should feel free to explore various subjects across the university as she sees fit. That is the beauty of a liberal arts college (or any university)…getting exposure to so many different topics that you never thought about before or possibly even knew existed.
I was a foreign language major in college who minored in a different foreign language and had a certificate in area studies. Employers were interested in the foreign language skills, but had my majors not been languages, I doubt they would have cared much (based on how much people cared about my certificate in area studies). I did also do essentially a double major as I was in the college of Arts & Sciences but fulfilled all the education requirements to become certified to teach. That was not reflected at all on my diploma, but employers in education cared a whole lot about it.
So essentially, if your daughter is interested something that would directly relate to some prospective career, then she can go on ahead and add something. If not, however, I’d suggest she explore at will without trying to add on an additional specialization. By exploring, she may even find something she wants to do vocationally!
Also, she may want to start on the path for dual minors and then see if she loses interest in one (and then drops it) or becomes super interested in it, and then turns it into a double major.
I think a second major is more impactful than a minor.
My daughter is in a special international studies program that requires a second major. There are some she likes but doesn’t love.
Her advisor approved doing two minors instead.
You don’t see places for minors on job apps etc so I prefer two majors. But I’m not her.
As for being job ready, most liberal arts and social sciences aren’t. But many get jobs just fine.
You can’t force someone to be what they aren’t.
Many will go to grad school. My kids will I’m sure as both parents have MBAs.
Hopefully your daughter can find an internship and then a job after school. I think it’s best to work b4 grad school otherwise you graduate into that same ‘what do I do’ abyss.
And now is a great time for someone in any major to find work.
To answer your question….my preference is double major but if she wants to explore more areas or doesn’t love the other majors and the minors work for her, then so be it.
In the end, she and not her choice of major….will make her success.
Ps I was a history and journalism double with a marketing mba. 3 soft degrees. I’m doing ok.
Anyone have any suggestions of careers/companies that a student such as this could explore? Are there suggestions for those with East Asian degrees in particular?
My daughter is a Classics major who originally considered a double major in IR or Linguistics. When she changed schools, the second major fell by the wayside since her new school’s emphases in IR and Linguistics are not her areas of interest.
Like your daughter, mine is not interested in CS or STEM (even though she’s really into biology and genetics).
Here’s my thinking: I am a firm believer in what one can DO rather than a focus on the major. It’s true that employers of new graduates might look at the major. However, there is a way to craft a more functional resume that spells out skills. This is partly why I have encouraged my daughter to seek an on-campus job now that (hopefully) the worst of the pandemic is behind us.
Wishing your daughter the best with her choice. Personally I would root for her enjoying her senior year and graduating strong after 2 rough pandemic years.
Originally she was looking at just the IR major with an eye on the school’s 4+1 MA program in Geneva. She was intrigued with the idea of a job at the UN. Unfortunately, she and the head of the program didn’t see eye to eye on the issue of nuclear proliferation vs diplomacy. She would get feedback that her thesis was clear, her research was impeccable, and she did a great job defending her stance but her position was just plain wrong. She is stubborn and the more pushback she got, the more she dug her heels in, to the detriment of her grades. In some regards, she is just burned out and is focusing on just getting out. I just don’t want her shooting herself in the foot in the long run.
I don’t think there is all that much difference in career options or hireability for double majors v. single majors. What I have noticed is that GPA does make a difference in hireability as many companies now have new graduate applicants upload their resumes electronically and the company’s sorting algorithm often have GPA minimums.
If your daughter can do the double major and maintain a good/great GPA, I think it could show rigor/breadth of knowledge…conversely if she feels like she might be overwhelmed by taking upper division courses over two different fields and it would adversely effect her GPA, I don’t think lots of employers would be as impressed. Quite frankly, I think most employers don’t care all that much for what exactly potential employees studied; the degree, the college and the GPA means so much more to most (excluding stem fields).
We have seen the same interest in language skills as AustenNut has. Fluency in more than one language definitely helps with hireability and career options. But you don’t necessarily have to minor or major in those languages as long as you can show some sort of certification as to proficiency. An OPI score could help if she doesn’t want to major/minor in a language but has those skills.
Also, she should check with her school to see if minors are even recorded on diplomas. It may well be that only majors are displayed on the diploma and only her transcript would show the minors. So in addition to many applications not having space to show the minors in education fields, it might require more paperwork to employers to ‘show’ the minors.
Without considering the specific majors and minors, a graduating college student looking for a job would be seeking:
Major-related jobs, where the employers would favor the student’s major over other majors.
Major-agnostic jobs, where the employers are looking for new college graduates but without any requirement or preference for a specific major.
Having more than one major could theoretically give additional opportunities in major-related jobs, if the graduating student is interested in them. Minors tend to have a lesser effect, since they are “smaller”, and not consistently defined across colleges. Sometimes, course work without any major or minor designation can help (e.g. knowledge of a foreign language to a useful level of proficiency).
Of course, adding a second major or minor in something with an already crowded major-related job market (e.g. biology) or where the major-related job market is elite-or-bust and you are not elite (e.g. music performance) is unlikely to add to your job prospects.
Some second majors or minors may be seen as a negative by some employers, if they signal the student’s interest in something other than what is being hired for (e.g. some engineering employers may see a business second major or minor as a signal of wanting to fast track to management, which may not be desired when hiring engineers; @HPuck35 has mentioned this). Of course, one’s primary major could also have this effect, if it is a narrowly focused pre-professional major with a limited target set of jobs (e.g. game design, sports management).
Regarding the specific additional major or minors in question (international relations and Asian studies), would she have an interest in businesses or organizations doing international activities, particularly in Asia (or the part of Asia that she focuses on)? Also note that her primary major of history is a broad field; the subareas she emphasizes could possibly be relevant.
Her interests are evolving but she favors human rights, non-profit, NGO-type things. She has applied for an unpaid international internship in that arena for this summer but is on the waiting list for summer funding to cover expenses. She won’t go without the funding as she feels obligated to contribute toward her books and personal expenses during the year.
Since I was mentioned in a prior post, I thought I’d clarify the single / double major issue I have. I was an engineering manager and I was hiring for jobs within my group. The nature of the job was that a high level of skill was ultimately required. Of course, a recent college grad wouldn’t have all those skills and so we would have to spend YEARS training them. Starting off with simple tasks under strict supervision and acquiring those skills. It cost the company a lot of time and money to do this, not to mention the time and money of the person doing the mentoring. So, I would want someone who really wanted to work in this field. Double majors just showed me they weren’t truly dedicated to the job I was offering. So, I avoided double majors.
The best thing to do in college is have a plan. What do you want to do for your career? You should have at least a general idea. You should then make yourself the most prepared person to do that job. Even if you do double major, no matter what job you take will start to give yourself a label as to that job. So, with that double major, you will have to choose.
True- she will be able to get work, but if she wants it to be in her field of interest that is more problematic. They are consistently over-supplied with graduates, so there is a strong emphasis on internships- un or barely paid. You trade up internships until you have the experience that the poorly-paid proper job requires. This does not go away once there is a diploma in hand.
Heard this just today from gradschoolkid1: a career person at Harvard Kennedy School recommended a poorly stipended but “prestigious” internship to a student who has an UG degree in the relevant field from Stanford, 4 years of (relevant) work experience, and is finishing her MPP at HKS next month. When the student protested that salary wasn’t enough to live on the career person pointed out that it is near where her family lives, so she could live with them. This is an extreme case- but the same gradschoolkid regularly sends me similar job postings. A couple of months ago was one with a big-name NGO, for an ‘internship’, based in Geneva. They required an UG degree & preferred a Masters; full bilingual fluency in French and English and it was for a non-renewable 6 months contract. Pay was $1000/month with no benefits (no health care, sick leave, vacation,etc). The work? Making travel reservations for the full time staff. So, no going to interesting meetings, no research, no contacts with interesting people.
(sorry, climbing down from my soap box now! It just enrages me the way they take advantage of these kids)
It is hard to over-emphasize how challenging it is to get properly-paid work in the first several years in this arena. If she wants to be involved in something East Asian, she needs to be getting true fluency in a relevant language. If she wants NGO-type jobs she needs to be ready to go where they need people- which is NOT DC. OR she needs to get a qualification that they want (accounting credentials carry a lot of weight interestingly enough).
Edited to say there is a more recent one from same authors that didn’t link correctly here.
General idea is that a second major closely related to the first isn’t as beneficial income- wise as adding a business or STEM major to a less employable one.
@helpingmom40 Is D20 planning on studying abroad (or has she already)? I know a lot of study abroad programs also offer internships for college credit which may be a way for her to get that type of NGO experience (as well as foreign language practice) without losing earning potential over summer breaks, if funding doesn’t come through.
I know at my D20’s college that study abroad is paid for through the home institute so the only real difference in cost is the difference between R&B expenses and international flights. It might be something to investigate if she is interested, especially the NGO interest.
Her school has fabulous financial aid that travels with the students abroad, which allows for some great opportunities. D is funny because she doesn’t want to study abroad somewhere we have gone on vacation which eliminates a lot of excellent programs in Western Europe. Her foreign language has always been French so she doesn’t qualify for a lot of the Asian programs because she lacks the language (I know, weird that she likes Asian studies but has no Asian language).
Her stubbornness gets in her way a lot but she doesn’t get it, yet. We have tried to rein in our suggestions with the hopes she comes to that realization herself.
Should not assume that any STEM major adds to job prospects. The biology job market is oversupplied, so adding a biology major may not be that helpful. Statistics or data science may be one of the most useful such majors to add, since it can be usefully applied to a wide range of subjects, including probably whatever one’s primary major is.
Your daughter has probably already looked at these programs, but in case she didn’t here are some I thought might look promising (semester of study integrated with internship - all non-Western European). I am pretty sure none of them require any foreign language proficiency, though it would probably help in some.
Has she looked into any exchange programs with Vietnam? The French influence is still there (I’ve read) in parts. Or has she thought about studying abroad in a francophone country in Africa or the Caribbean? Just having the experience of living abroad, particularly in a non-western country might be very beneficial for her NGO interests.
These are all AWESOME programs!! Thank you so much for providing the links. I know she has looked at a few things but I am sending these to her tomorrow!
