“Thanks, I’ll show my daughter that the degree she’s planning to earn in writing will earn her $19,000/year. I’m sure it won’t change her mind.”
I think it depends on the specifics of the situation for each kid, but many students don’t understand that not only will their salary be low, and what that means for lifestyle, but also that the high underemployment rates in some majors means that they will not be doing the thing they studied at all.
I think that more information is better. It may not change a students mind, but at least the decision is more informed. I also think this information is more important for poor and middle income students where it is more critical to be able to get a good paying job at graduation.
Federal minimum wage is $7.25 in 2015. If full time annual hours are 2000, that means the worker you cite would make about $14,500 per year. I think that the “mid $30K range” is significantly more.
S’s second grade teacher was an education major from the state teacher’s college. She was also a Maine State Teacher of the Year, a NASA fellow, a Millikin award winner, and more. Her classroom was an incredible place for science learning, amongst other things. A weather satellite receiver on the roof of the school and a terminal in the classroom, building and launching rockets, participating in scientific measurement of a stand of white pine for a longitudinal environmental study, analyzing satellite images of the area for ground cover and vegetation et al, and I could go on.
I majored in history. I’ve got some theology in there, too. I work at a Fortune 100 tech company in what’s truly my dream job, at least for now. My liberal arts background is definitely an asset, not a liability. And … well, I’m not making $19K a year. Or $30K.
Oh - and I actively seek out people with liberal arts, international travel, and good writing skills when I hire, too. We think differently, and in my area, that really matters.
This is such a pet peeve of mine. College is not a vocational school. You don’t major in English to work in the English “field.” You don’t major in history to “do” history. You major in these academic disciplines to become an educated citizen, to be able to participate in and perpetuate democracy, and to be able to think critically in ANY job that does not require specific training. MOST jobs do not require job-related training at a university. There are so many jobs out there that any one of us has absolutely no idea exist. I have younger cousins in their late 20s who are both working in fields that did not even exist when they started college. OK, rant over.
I would suggest to anyone to look at random people’s career paths on Linked In.
My kid’s favorite course this semester (his 1st) is his Philosophy class. I was shocked. Physics, Calculus, Freshman Seminar and Philosophy, and the one he thought he’s hate is the favorite.
If you read the first post and follow the link, you’ll see that it links to a story that begins with that line, and then spends the rest of the time debunking it.
“You don’t major in English to work in the English “field.”” Hmm. Tell that to my daughter. What if you want to? I’m not really interested in the English majors who became fundraising directors or whatnot. After all, if what they really want is a job that doesn’t require any particular major then it doesn’t matter what they major in, so we shouldn’t worry about it. But what happens to the kids who major in English who really do want to write fiction, not just spend 4 years studying what they love and then go work at something which they don’t love and which isn’t even particularly related to what they spent their youth learning about? How many of them are successful and how many of them give up and go write the instruction manuals no one ever reads for some company?
@mathyone If she wants to be a novelist, all the power too her. Thing is, she will have to support herself until she becomes the next Meg Wolitzer. So she may be working as a fundraising assistant at a museum or a communications associate at a corporation during the day. And she doesn’t have to wait until she graduates. She should be starting her novel now. And submitting short works to The New Yorker and other literary magazines. Does she have a blog?
@mathyone - I’d direct an aspiring sci-fi (my favorite genre!) writer to peruse Holly Lisle’s website. Best of luck to your daughter as she forges her path!
Personally, a BA in English did not hand me a fantastic paycheck, and I have not worked “in the field.” However, my education still developed critical thinking, communication and other necessary skills that I have applied to a range of jobs. My starting salary after college was almost double minimum wage (at the time), and I do earn significantly more than that now. But I work to pay my bills. I pursue my passions on my own time, for my own satisfaction and to my own standards. Many of my professional choices have been driven by the fact that I am a single parent with two kids; very few have been driven my education.
I will never be wealthy or get to not think about money and budgets, but I’ve always been self-sufficient.
“high underemployment rates in some majors means that they will not be doing the thing they studied at all.”
@brantly “You don’t major in English to work in the English “field.” You don’t major in history to “do” history. You major in these academic disciplines to become an educated citizen…”
The thing is that some do plan to work in the English “field”, and there are two groups of them. One group is very talented, and has a good shot at it. The other group is not very talented, but likes it, and many of them have no idea what they are up against to turn it into a career.
I do think you are right that many English majors on cc: because they liked it and to be well educated, but understood that they were unlikely to work at a writer initially after school. I think that is great. It bothers me when it is a kid from a poor family who had no idea how difficult it is to be a professional writer, didn’t have the talent, but was not informed by anyone.
Seems like what you are saying is that much of the “weeding out” of people aspiring to careers in English literature can occur after graduation, rather than much of it occurring before (as in subjects like engineering).
Obviously, a well informed English major will know that many graduates in the major end up working in something not directly related to English literature, and make post-graduation plans accordingly.
@brantly, no blog, she has started a novel, has significant local recognition and had a few stories published in student-y venues. She is only 15–I rather doubt New Yorker will happen any time soon.
@ucbalumnus “Obviously, a well informed English major will know that many graduates in the major end up working in something not directly related to English literature, and make post-graduation plans accordingly.”
True, but the uninformed ones tend to be the ones on the low income side, which is unfortunate. I am not concerned about the ones from wealthy families at all. They tend to be better informed and will work it out anyway.
I would add that the kids who should major in English are easy to spot, they read a lot and write a lot and they don’t need a homework assignment to get them to do either one. It sounds like @Mathyone may have one of those.
True, going uninformed into something risks running into a bad outcome that one never considered before.
Perhaps it should be: “the kids who should major in English are easy to spot; they read a lot of English literature and write a lot about English literature, and they don’t need a homework assignment to get them to do either one.” Surely there are people who like to read and write about some other subject that they are more passionate about (and therefore is likely to be a more suitable major for them than English is likely to be).
The value of data is to make an informed decision. The right decision for each individual will depend on inclination and circumstance as well as salary.
Neither of my children decided on their majors with any regard to published salary surveys. They chose to major in areas that they found interesting and for which they had a passion. So, D1 majored in musical theater and history and is currently pursuing PhD in history (focusing on history of performance) and S2 is majoring in voice performance. Neither of them will ever earn an impressive salary. But I think both of them will be happy with their choices, be able to support themselves, and contribute to society. Not everyone is motivated by money! (For the record, both H and I pursued careers that we found interesting, not remunerative, so I guess our kids just internalized our values)
