Making the most of a biology degree

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

Community college transfer (with A.A. degree) going into my junior year at a state LAC (non-flagship). Decided to return to school with the specific intention to pursue medicine after a year of working and doing some self-reflection.

Will be about $50K in debt when I graduate with a B.A. in Biology in a couple years and this debt kinda has me on the edge…mainly due to the fact that admission to med school is not guaranteed (especially as someone who comes from a disadvantaged background). Switching my major to a non-BA degree (i.e., B.S. or B.B.A., etc.) would mean more semesters in college (A.A. degree covers my gen eds for a B.A.), and thus would mean more $$$. Trying to avoid switching my major with this thought in mind.

Along with my keeping up with my academics, my next two years will be focused on attaining the research, non-clinical/clinical volunteering and shadowing hours I will need to have a strong medical school application. Will be applying to medical school after I graduate, for those wondering.

Interested in some ideas on making the most out of a biology degree for employment purposes after graduation (especially with the student loan debt I’ll have to pay back), should I not get in to medical school. Wondering what other pre-med biology majors do, especially when considering the amount of hours one needs to put towards medical-related extracurricular activities. The most common forms of experience my career center offers are internships (majority are non-science related). Is it normal to pursue internships that aren’t science related?

2

To maximize your post-graduation employability, I have 2 suggestions:

  1. take as much math as you can, esp. stats (probability/risk management if you can manage it)

  2. develop some basic computer coding skills (JAVA, SQL, Javascript, Python or C++) and/or learn how to use some math/data management software packages (MATLab, SPSS, Excel, etc). You don’t need to take formal classes if you’re self disciplined enough to teach yourself and actually develop demonstrable skills. (NOTE: employers may not accept your word that you know/can do X or Y. It’s always wise to have a previous project you can point to if you don’t have any coursework on your resumé.)


Non-science/non-medical internships will get you dinged during med school admissions unless they somehow can be related back to science, medicine or community service. Public health, bio medical product development, science research, even education are fine. Banking, investment services, law, business management--not fine. Also pre-professional type internships for dietetics, sports training, clinical lab sciences/medical technologist will get one dinged during med school admissions. (It makes adcomms question your commitment to medicine as a career because you're preparing for some other career that is not medicine.)

Some places where you might look for a job w/ a bio degree—education, public health/community outreach, research assistant/lab tech, USDA and other government agencies (environmental management), healthcare case management, medical device or pharmaceutical sales.

Here’s a website that you help you explore other healthcare careers you might qualify for with a BA/BS in Bio. Most may require additional specialized training.

[Explore Health Careers](Career Explorer)


$50K in undergrad debt is unusually high. Is there any way you can further minimize your loan burden?
3

A lot of premed bio majors who cannot get into med schook work as medical assistants or research assistants after they graduate. These jobs are low paying (40k/yr) but help boost their resume.

You could get a teaching certification and teach (This might take extra school though you might want to check). Science teachers are highly in demand, and where I live in the NY/NJ area, high school teachers make 45k starting.

There are also some community service gigs (Like teach for America or the peace corps) that may provide loan support.

Good luck!

4

Teaching requires a valid state-specific teaching certificate. There are post-bachelor’s certification programs; they typically require 1-2 years full time to complete. Additionally, some states require teacher candidates to pass standardized subject matter exams. (Praxis)

Charter school and private school education positions may or may not require a teaching certificate.

I think the above estimate of salaries for entry level MAs and RAs is on the overly generous side, the mid $20s- low $30s K/year range is more typical.

5

Thanks for both of your responses. Will try to fit in more math and coding courses into my schedule…and avoid non-medical internships for now.

If med school does not pan out, I see myself doing something along the lines of NP (or some other higher-level specialized nurse) or even PA. As a pre-med biology student, would my med school application be questioned if I took nursing/PA school prerequisites? I have a few elective slots to fit a handful of the nursing prereqs in, but it would mean taking lower division biology courses (e.g., biology for non-majors, lower level microbiology, etc.). The anatomy and physiology courses would overlap, however, counting as both bio major electives and satisfying nursing school prerequisites. My local flagship offers a GEPN program I might be interested in applying to. Another option would be to start from the bottom with an ASN at my local community college.

I have considered teaching at the public HS level myself, but many of the teachers I’ve spoken with in my area don’t recommend becoming one. An overwhelming majority claim that their job has become less enjoyable because the state controls them with standards that make it difficult to teach.

As for my $50K in debt, this seems to be the cheapest option in my state. Unfortunately, as a transfer applicant, I was warned that financial aid would be limited. Would be open to other school suggestions if it means less debt. Another option would be to work while I’m in school, but my pre-med advisor is against it due to wanting me to focus on gaining volunteering experiences instead.

6

@threepeat What is your state? Is there a possibility to join state public U than state LAC you mentioned to reduce your BA/BS education cost.

Make sure to reduce your debt after you graduate and before you join MD. It is not just the amount but the interest especially if it is going be paid after 8-10 years.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-meru-has-1-million-in-student-loans-how-did-that-happen-1527252975

7

Some issues:

For PA–

  1. PA schools have an admission requirement for hands on, direct patient care paid employment. The requirement runs from several hundred hours to several thousand hours, depending on the specific program. 2000 hours is not uncommon. (For types of jobs that fulfill the patient care requirement, see: https://www.thepalife.com/hce-paschool/)

  2. Required admission coursework for PA programs is not identical to coursework required for med school admission. (You’ll need microbiology w/lab and human A&P w/ lab at a minimum, plus any school specific requirements) Unfortunately the pre-reqs for PA programs vary a good deal more by program than those for med school. You will need to research the specific programs you are most likely to attend to see what their requirements are.

You can certainly take micro and A&P without getting any suspicious looks from adcomms.


For NP/APRN--

1) Undergrad nursing  pre-reqs may not fulfill med school admission requirements. At some colleges, nursing and other allied health science majors have their own separate education track. Bio/chem/physics classes for the allied health sciences do not fulfill med school admission requirements. Med school applicants must take the same sciences as a science major would take. 

(NOTE: if you take any science classes that are identified as being for allied health sciences on your transcript, med school adcomms will note it and ding you for it if you've taken them recently and not at the beginning of your academic career. You can spin the latter as "changing your mind about your career direction." You can't do that if you took them your jr and sr. years.)

2) NP/APRN programs require a BSN for admission. A BA in bio won't cut it. You'll need to earn a nursing degree. There are some fast track Bio --->BSN programs, but they take about 18-20 months full time to complete. 

3) NP/APRN programs usually require 3 years of full time floor nursing (hospital) experience for admission.

RE: working

Would you consider working in a healthcare related job part-time during your last 2 years of college? (See link above for a list of patient contact jobs.) The job could be counted as clinical exposure for med school and give you a start on racking up the required hours for PA school. Plus you’d be earning an hourly wage to help offset your college costs.

What about on-campus jobs? Tutoring/TAing. Or a paid research lab position. If you have previous waitstaff experience, maybe you can pick up a weekends-only shift from a local restaurant. (D1 used to waitress at a high end restaurant Fridays & Saturdays for dinner shift when she was doing her career-changer post-bacc. She made some pretty good $$.)

You can work 10-15 hours week without significantly interfering with your pre med activities/academics.

Med schools will still expect you to have community service w/ vulnerable populations and leadership in addition to clinical exposure.

Research is not crucial for a med school admission unless you’re gunning for a research intensive school. Mission-based med schools (most state public schools, Loma Linda, HBCUs, Catholic med schools) are much more interested in your service to others than your research portfolio.


RE: teaching  

Teaching is its own calling. It can be a great job for the right person.  Most new teachers only last 3 years before they become disillusioned and quit to do something else. (I lasted 7 before I quit. I changed professions 2 more times before I found my true calling. Life is a complicated process.) 

Many of the complaints you'll hear from teachers are identical to individuals in other professions (including medicine)--over-regulation, government (or insurance or some other entity) interference, lack of respect, stress, burnout, lack of adequate resources to do the job right.  People are always gonna complain about their jobs--even they like them. It's part of human nature.
8

If money is an issue, why are you going to an LAC instead of a public? Can you commute to the local flagship? If your family is low income, how are you going to borrow $50k over the next 2 years? The federal student loan is only $7500/year.

I wouldn’t major in biology as a pre-med. I’d major I something that would allow me to support myself if I didn’t get into med school. You could do another year at a cc if you need gen eds for a different major. If the local flagship is within commuting distance and tuition isn’t super expensive, you could probably take the classes there. It might take an extra semester, but if you’re not $50k in debt and have a marketable degree it may be worth it.

9

@threepeat

Both @GoldenRock and @austinmshauri make good points.

$50K in federal students loans is approaching the lifetime limit for undergrad student loans. ($57K) If you need to take additional coursework past your BA to fulfill coursework requirements (for nursing or PA school) or to train for another career, the money just isn’t going to be available.

Having that much undergrad debt may also impact your ability to borrow sufficient funds to pay for med school. Med students can only borrow $40,500/year–which won’t cover the COA at most med schools. (The national average for just for tuition, fees & health insurance is > $36K.) You will need to have a excellent credit rating to be eligible for Grad Plus loans. $50K in undergrad debt may disqualify you.

For other professional school programs–nursing and PA-- and for all other graduate programs, the annual loan limit amounts are lower, $20,500/year. Again–that amount is unlikely to cover the full COA.

10

To clarify my mention of the LAC, the school is actually a public institution that is a sister school to the flagship and is much cheaper to attend. They consider themselves to be an LAC because of the similarities they have with private LACs, and more differences they have with large research universities like the flagship. Unable to reasonably commute to either school (too far).

Looking at my COA breakdown, most of my expenses will be on room and board. As an independent, I was offered $12.5K/yr. in federal loans. I was looking to borrow an additional $5K/semester from my credit union (with the help of my parents), which is actually right around my EFC.

Thinking back, the tax information used to calculate this EFC were based on when I had my full-time job (made about $45K that year – most of which went to pay off debt). I’ll have nowhere near that amount in cashflow anytime soon (quit to return to school). Would appealing my financial aid for more grant money make any sense in this situation?

Another option I just thought of would be to remain a bio major, spend another year at my cc while taking intro science courses and spend my last year at the LAC (taking mainly upper division biology to fulfill final major requirements). A lot of the science courses are actually offered here. I’d be able to take the year of orgo, physics, anatomy/phys, and a couple humanities electives…and all would transfer and count towards my bio degree at the LAC. However, the concern then becomes the fact that I took my pre-med prerequisites at a community college (that actually awards a few bachelor’s degrees, but I’m not sure if it’d make any difference. Would med schools consider my limited finances in making their decision?

Another con to this idea is that I’ll be living at home. My living condition at home isn’t exactly ideal as a student because of distractions.

I’m aware of the issues mentioned about PA school and is mainly my reason for leaning towards NP. The GEPN route I mentioned is for those who don’t have undergraduate nursing degrees, like you mention…which was mainly mentioned as a backup to med school, not necessarily a solution to my original question of how to make a bio major employable.

As for a healthcare related job while in college, I was offered a scribing position at the hospital. But did not take it at the advice of my pre-med advisor.

Changing my major would really cost me more time and therefore more money. If I did change my major, I couldn’t see myself spending more than the 50K to get a degree unless my salary prospects would be so much more (should I not get into med school). What are some college major suggestions that would make taking ~$50K+ in loans worth the investment?

Overall, I am questioning my return back to college…I thought my plan of taking out loans to pursue my medical school aspiration was a sound one…but, as I think about it now, I feel a little crazy about the thought of spending ~$25K/year just for a bio degree.

Sorry for the rambling! Confused more than ever on whether I should continue my education next semester.

11

Biostatistics and bioinformatics are much in demand. You can tie as many statistics classes at the CC as possible.
You need two years at a 4-year school minimum and each science subject taken in community college needs to have an upper level match at the 4-year school. So, if you took basic biology and organic chemistry at the CC, you’d need to take biochemistry and upper Evel biology at the 4-year.
Do contact financial aid since you’re an independent and your package was based on your working full time, which you obviously don’t be if you enroll in college.

12

What is your GPA? Not sure you mentioned it.

13

@threepeat

You’re right about the having only 1 year of classes at your 4 year. Med school adcomms will want to see at least 2 full years of grades from a 4 year college. Taking all of your pre-reqs at community college only works if: A) you already hold a college degree (IOW already have a track record of academic success), or B) you supplement your CC coursework with upper level coursework at a 4 year to prove any academic success isn’t a fluke or due to the less competitive environment of a CC.

Yes, adcomms do look at “distance travelled” when considering applicants, and take into some consideration an applicant’s financial situation. (For example, except for 3 or 4 schools, all med schools now accept CC credits for pre-reqs. Five years that wasn’t true.) But even so, it would likely hurt your application if you earned a BA from what’s essentially a CC. Rigor of coursework is important for adcomms. They want objective evidence that you can handle the intense academics of med school.

Turning down the scribing job was probably a bad decision. Scribing would provide you with valuable exposure to clinical practice and put $$ in your pocket to help defray some college expenses & build a cushion to pay for med school application expenses. (Applying to med school is expensive!) As I said earlier this is no reason why you can’t work 10-15 hours/week and still manage all the expected pre-med academics and ECs. Is there any possibility that your could still get the scribing position?

You should know that many health profession advisors at colleges aren’t terribly knowledgable about the med school admissions process. Many give just plain bad advice, esp to non-traditional students whose issues are different than those of younger students.

I would second @MYOS1634 ‘s advice about the employability of biostatistics and bioinfomatics. Both are "hot’ fields right now and offer strong job opportunities. If you have a strong math and/or coding background, this might provide you with another Plan B career direction.

RE: Going back to school. It’s never foolish to pursue a dream, but it’s foolish if you impoverish yourself doing so.

If it gives you any hope, about 1/3 of D1’s and D2’s classes at the state med school were non-trads. Many of the non-trads had interesting life journeys (like the former Special Forces sniper, or the fellow who emigrated from Cameroon and earned his bio BA part time over 8 years while driving a long haul truck full time to support his family).

14

Unfortunately, biostatistics and bioinformatics aren’t offered at the university I’m transferring to; they only offer common/generic degrees. The most useful/ practical ones (according to a trusted academic counselor) are outlined below.

As for my GPA, I maintained a 4.0 throughout my A.A. degree.

I was going to ask about graduating earlier from the four-year (it’s an option I have due to the amount of credits I have)…but given the 2 year “baseline” at the 4 year, guess that’s not an option.

Do you think this strategy would work?

  1. Major in a “practical” degree at the four-year (no pre-med prerequisites)
  2. graduate
  3. go back home, work full time to pay off debt all while taking pre-med prerequisites at the cc

The thing that worries me is the fact that the chosen “practical” major could very well be a vocational one…to guarantee a decent salary upon graduation.

One option would be to pursue a BSN degree. Aside from the fact that it is a vocational degree, time is against me here (translating to more $$$). First, I’d need dedicate a full year to prerequisites. I hear that the competition for a spot is fierce, and it could take several application cycles to get a spot. These two points alone could mean a long wait in between before I’m given access to nursing courses. The degree would take two years minimum to complete after the year of prerequisites. In my med school apps, I’d also be given the task of explaining why I pursued nursing.

My second option would be with the business school, which has a good track record of placing their graduates into decent paying jobs… along the lines of accounting. I’d barley be able to graduate in two years (would need to take a couple courses in the summer). Business in general, and accounting specifically, is not in my blood…so I’m not particularly excited about pursuing it.

My third option would be computer science. Like accounting above, I don’t have a particular interest in it. With all the prerequisites, it would also mean that I’d need to do an additional 3.5 to 4 years of coursework….which doesn’t look too appealing to me.

I’m sure that being rehired for the scribe position wouldn’t be too difficult. Heard they have a difficult time retaining their employees and that they’re desperate for help. The requirement was 20 hours/week minimum. And I plan on doing 6-8 hours of volunteering per week on top of my coursework…

The university is in a rural town and jobs that employ for 10 to 15 hours per week are hard to come by… Haven’t looked at on-campus jobs yet…but I’d assume it’d be easier to find a position that’d allow me to work for less than 20.

Overall, I feel sorta cornered. I am at that point in my life (mid-20s) where I want to move on to work on a career and work on settling down…not digress to an unrelated field. With all this thought about changing my major, is it normal to feel resistance in doing so? Totally understand the need for it, but I’ve always gravitated towards biology. Kind of worried I won’t do as well in a subject that I’m totally foreign to…but I guess I’ll never know unless I try. I also feel as though changing my major would serve as a distraction from my initial med school goals.

15

You need to take science pre-reqs or upper level classes in biology, biochemistry, etc, at a 4-year college.
You shouldn’t focus on nursing or accounting.
It sounds like the college you were admitted to doesn’t meet your academic needs.
Can you transfer to another university than that one? Can you delay transferring by one semester so that you can apply to more colleges?
Perhaps it’d be worth it, due to your unusual path and 4.0, to try and apply to Cornell’s CALS?

16

Agree with the above. Don’t major in accounting or nursing if you can’t see yourself doing that for a living.

Vocational majors fare least well of all college majors when it comes to med schools admissions. (Lack of rigor is a major concern.)

Biology is fine major, but it’s not a major that prepares for any specific career.

What is your home state? Is there any possibility of transferring to the flagship university instead of regional LAC? What would be the cost difference? Are all your undergrad credits transferrable within your state system?

Be aware that as a transfer student you are probably going lose credits transferring anywhere except within your home state’s public college system. Different course content, different class systems (quarter to semester; semester to quarter) all play havoc on transferrable credit and graduation requirement fulfillment.

If you are female, consider applying to women’s colleges (Mt Holyoke, Agnes Scott, Wellesley, Vassar) which tend to sympathetic to non-traditional students.

What about applying to a Work College? http://www.workcolleges.org/about-work-colleges
In return for 15 hours/week of campus/community work, you get free tuition, room & board. I believe all 7 work colleges accept transfer students. (One of D2’s friends graduated from Alice Lloyd. She has nothing but praise for the school.)

Another idea would be to find a job with tuition benefits. Employees of a college or university get 1-3 free classes/semester after an initial employment period (6-12 months). You wouldn’t be graduating as soon as you’d like, but you wouldn’t be drowning in debt either.

17

Vassar is very sympathetic to non-traditional students (including Vets), is experienced in working with CC transfers, and meets full need…but it has not been a women’s college since 1969…