<p>The higher suicide rate in Germany relates to other social conditions, not the situation being discussed here, which relates to the effects and abuses inherent to the college loan situation in the US. Concerning student populations, the higher student suicide rate in Germany and for that matter Japan, is more the result of their unique social expectations for education. The pressure to get into certain fields of study, or family pressures not to cause lose of face. Which, once again, are implicity not directly correlated in any meaningful way to the issue being discussed in this debate.
That of the excessive costs and the literal carte blanche for abuses which have stained the US collegiate system. To illustrate, I have worked within the court system, and know first hand the tactics and harassment used by loan servicers.<br>
Simply put, the level of harassment our system permits them to use agaisnt people is appalling. If a private individual were to conduct themselves in a like manner, charges would be applied for harassment, stalking, and in some cases, extortion. And specific experience within the courts is not needed to make this assessment. Many who have obtained advanced degrees, have to some degree been subjected to these pressures, or are aware of someone who has been.
So yes, I’m quite aware of the higher suicide rate in Germany. As any person would be who has the capacity to do a google search. But, it has little to do with the situation which caused the death of the unfortunate gentleman around which this discussion is premised. And that situation, is specifically oriented to the abuses with the collegiate funding system, and how the colleges themselves have been accessories to these activities. The operative word, in this context, was and is profiteering.</p>
<p>Perhaps the stress of passing the Abitur has something to do with the suicide rate in that age group?</p>
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<p>Okay, so in this thread we can go on from the hypothesis that completely revaming the student loan system in the United States would have prevented that unfortunate man’s suicide. That hypothesis is not well backed up by international comparisons. Perhaps if we had a different system for funding college study here, along the lines suggested in some replies above, both he and three other men in his town would have committed suicide, not to mention more women. It’s always important to check real-world examples when advocating changes in national policy.</p>
<p>The obvious correlation in this particular case, is yes, there was a decided link between the student loan situation and the death of the individual.
Whether or not there would be a decrease in other such acts, could only be known should that system finally be reformed. But unfortunately, and looking at the problem on an intuitive basis, there will be more of these deaths coming. For the reasons and because of the attendent pressures which have already been mentioned. The one unfortunate death upon which this discussion is hinged, could be a warning of much worse to come. And if this does happen, at what point do we consider financial profit for a limited group being a higher need than social stability?
And there are calls within the collegiate system itself, for these reforms to take place. Recent articles in the Chronicle of Higher Education bear witness to this trend, as do the discussions related to the loan issue on the Chronicle forums. Since the Chronicle of Higher Education is the nee’ plus ultra establishment voice of academia, the mere presence of these essays and forum postings indicates how badly the situation has declined. Even within a system which has benefited from these situations and abuses, some know its gone too far.
Concerning national policy, is reform of that such a problem? Or is the situation that national policy in regards to student loans is being unduly influenced by the loan industry itself? These organizations do have substantial power, and hence lobbying access that students, communities, and faculty simply do not have.<br>
For example, many of the SL companies do have ties to the financial organizations involved in the current foreclosure mess. And these corporations in their use of unethical tricks such as conduit financing, played a major role in recent mortgage collapse. And its very interesting that nothing was being done about that problem, until those entities began to lose money. It’s profoundly disturbing how quickly the administration did act, once these financial entities made their complaints known. Through insider channels that the rest of us, simply cannot access.
Which reinforces the idea, that national policy, in any number of areas, has become too closely influenced by these companies.</p>
<p>Before you go and say its not their fault, just know that it probably is. I was never known of having depression. I’ve always been a happy kid. But when my job didn’t pay me enough to pay my rent, fix my car <em>or buy another one</em> pay for gas, food, necessities, bills, and student loans. I had to move back in with my parents. Who, by the way, are not well off unlike maybe… I don’t know, yours. When you have to pay for all your bills yourself, with no help of a wife, no family who has money. Things tend to build up quick. </p>
<p>I’m on the same boat this guy was. I’m sure their were other factors, but to be reminded everyday that your a piece of waste, and being haulted from moving forward, because they wont let you. It takes a big toll on you. I’m so happy that you found a great wonderful job that pays your bills, but for some of us, were not interested in your line of work. In a matter of fact, i’d rather be harassed everyday than to wake up and do what you do. Because it takes someone pretty low as a person to not think that maybe just living life alone, is a job, and some jobs don’t pay to live life when a lender is scratching down your throat.</p>
<p>Before you go and say its not their fault, just know that it probably is. I was never known of having depression. I’ve always been a happy kid. But when my job didn’t pay me enough to pay my rent, fix my car <em>or buy another one</em> pay for gas, food, necessities, bills, and student loans. I had to move back in with my parents. Who, by the way, are not well off unlike maybe… I don’t know, yours. When you have to pay for all your bills yourself, with no help of a wife, no family who has money. Things tend to build up quick. </p>
<p>I’m on the same boat this guy was. I’m sure they’re were other factors, but to be reminded everyday that your a piece of ****, and being haulted from moving forward, because they wont let you. It takes a big toll on you. I’m so happy that you found a great wonderful job that pays your bills, but for some of us, were not interested in your line of work. In a matter of fact, i’d rather be harassed everyday than to wake up and do what you do. Because it takes someone pretty low as a person to not think that maybe just living life alone, is a job, and some jobs don’t pay to live life when a lender is scratching down your throat.</p>
<p>You just brought back a 3 1/2 year old thread</p>
<p>Some people here are not only harsh but heartless. Yes, the kid likely had issues outside of the loans and yes he is responsible for signing those loans. But schools dangle money in front of potential students like candy. They focus on the success stories in finding jobs not the real possibility of not finding one. They might not be soley responsible for this young man’s death but the ARE responsible for the "free for all’ loans they call financial aid. As long as you can sign the dotted line you are eligible. </p>
<p>If the kid was raised in modest or even slightly impoverished means then 100k dollars would seem like a million and would be a crushing amount of debt especially if was not raised in a financially responsible home.</p>
<p>I’m appalled at how many college (and further) educated folk on this thread even consider making this issue a “personal responsibility” issue. They said it right there in the information provided- he had depression. Depression, like other mental health issues, skews one’s perception of the world and their responses to events around them. I know this firsthand, I just graduated, I have $100K in debt, and I have bipolar disorder (I’ve fought major depression for over a decade). In the worst of it, you don’t think right, you don’t see that you aren’t thinking right. You fixate on why you can’t, why everything’s wrong, and why you are a worthless piece of work, and eventually, you fixate on an escape. People who consider suicide hardly see any other option, and hardly see past the immediate. Everyone’s degree of depression also has to do with their coping abilities and the behavioral patterns they’ve come to learn. And you people have the nerve to take this tragedy and make character judgments of it? Save those opinions for the likes of Hitler. </p>
<p>It IS an institutional issue because loan companies give out loans to people who clearly cannot afford it, with limited options in paying back. Why not, say, offer lower-interest, flexible loans to students in single-parent families? Why not, say, offer up to a certain amount of debt forgiveness to families clearly under or at the poverty line? Why not make exceptions- and this is ridiculous- for those who are just above the poverty line by one or two thousand? A job CAN be lost, a death CAN occur, a terminal illness CAN come to be, and people’s lives can be ruined in one million ways that strip them of their financial means. Mass-production was good for the Model T, not for loans that individuals in individual circumstances seek. Tuition costs are growing greater as we speak and students who ought to be focusing on their educations are required to work up to thirty hours to pay up for it- think about what that does to a student’s morale. I had taken some semesters with work and some without. The ones without exceeded the ones with in grades, and remarkably. You can always say “go find an on-campus job”. Easier said than done when you are competing with thousands of others for twenty or so minimum-wage positions. Face up to grim reality and stop smoking from the American Dream pipe. </p>
<p>The sad truth about this entire situation is that, in a logical sense, class-breaching is detrimental to society. College and other forms of postsecondary education are forms of class-breaching, because many attend these institutions under the shaky hopes that they will live markedly improved lifestyles. The bitter reality is that classes are more like castes. Credit companies and loaners seem enticing, but if someone has the means to breach classes, why the hell would they consider using them? The promise goes like this:</p>
<p>“You are working/lower middle class? You want to be professional/middle/upper middle class? Well, you CAN do it!”</p>
<p>The reality is, people who are working and lower middle class struggle with not just financial issues. Different classes have different ways of life, of being, of seeing things. Its a host of different stressors. You’re all forgotting what college was originally about. It was to further the academic prowess of the ALREADY elite. And America being the land of the opportunity sought to change that. But, America being the land of the dollar, also sought to make some money off of that dream of greater opportunity. Wop wop wop…</p>
<p>Please refrain from making value/character judgments about dead people or people in dire straits, you do not know them, their experiences, their current circumstances, or their health. Judge only what you have the means to judge. I think some guy with a beard said that some two thousand years ago.</p>