<p>I looked at that sticky and noticed all of the awards/scholarships were VERY nice. I was just wondering though, how did you guys achieve them? Did you apply to it or were you nominated it due to your gpa/class rank. How did u get those awards?</p>
<p>If you go to the web sites of the colleges that gave the awards, in general, you'll find info about what the qualifications are. Often you'll also find information about previous award winners. You also can find good info by using CC's archives and using the award name as the search term.</p>
<p>Some awards are distributed automatically by the college/university based on the regular admissions application. Some require an additional application/project/essay/submission of some kind. Others involve on-campus interviews/special visits. These are the direct school awards.</p>
<p>There are a whole host of private, independent scholarhips - some national, some regional or local. The process for obtaining these varies greatly, but usually involves an application and essay.</p>
<p>Seems like it was almost a full-time job to keep up with what was due and when for each college plus outside scholarships. Do yourself a favor - set up some type of organization system. My daughter and I created a grid on a poster.</p>
<p>It varies and students have to do their own research. Our son got the $15k/yr scholarship that goes along with the Renssselaer Medal. He got a $15k/yr scholarship to Wooster offered to members of the Presbyterian Church(USA) and all he had to do was have our Pastor write a letter of recommendation. He also got another merit awards totalling $252,000 by doing his reseaerch, applying to the right colleges and getting his applications submitted by early October.</p>
<p>He spent many hours researching the colleges he would apply to and in the end he was accepted to 7 fine colleges, 6 who offered him significan merit aid.</p>
<p>My 3 kids all got merit awards to their schools. They got them for every school they applied to that gave merit awards. None of them had to apply seperately for them. There were a couple of schools that stated that they needed to apply by a certain date in order to be considered for merit. And a few schools also stated that the FAFSA needed to be filed for any award, regardless of need.</p>
<p>orignaloog brings up a good point that I want to emphasize, as it is sandwiched in the middle of the post.</p>
<p>Common wisdom is that getting the application in early is beneficial for merit award consideration. I don't know that it is always true, but it certainly can't hurt. S' largest merit award came from an EA app. Another from one of those "streamlined" apps that some schools send out to encourage/make it easy to apply.</p>
<p>Redwood:</p>
<p>You might notice that there is not a thread entitled "Merit Awards I Thought I'd Recieve, But Didn't." (Maybe there should be.) My point is that, yes, the merit awards look VERY nice (and indeed they are) but without GPA, test scores, URM status, athletic status, and ECs listed they are very difficult to evaluate for any one person's individual circumstances. In other words, don't get your hopes up too high just by looking over that list.</p>
<p>I think the best use of the list is to get an overall idea of what schools offer any money at all. From there you have to do some homework. </p>
<p>Also, do not underestimate people's confusion over what constitutes merit aid versus need based aid. Some are likely to be misreported (indeed, it can be confusing).</p>
<p>quote: "Also, do not underestimate people's confusion over what constitutes merit aid versus need based aid. Some are likely to be misreported (indeed, it can be confusing)."</p>
<p>I've been browsing this thread and I'm wondering who the folks are who are seeking merit aid. I didn't quite get it, but now I'm wondering if there's confusion between need-based grants and "merit scholarships." </p>
<p>Many colleges meet a student's need with a combination of grants and low-interest loans; need is determined by looking at the family's assets and income and estimating what their fair share of the cost should be.</p>
<p>A few colleges, in an attempt to attract wealthier and higher-scoring students, offer merit aid. This is essentially a bribe to improve the college's ranking and ultimately increase revenue. It's bonus cash that promises to reduce the student's cost below his/her fair share. It is of no help to a low-income student because the merit aid just replaces need-based aid.</p>
<p>Offering merit aid benefits the college's bottom line, and unfairly distributes scholarship dollars to those who least need them. So my question is, are people on CC really aiming to game this system, or are they simply confusing need-based grants and merit awards?</p>
<p>
[quote]
A few colleges, in an attempt to attract wealthier and higher-scoring students, offer merit aid. This is essentially a bribe to improve the college's ranking and ultimately increase revenue. It's bonus cash that promises to reduce the student's cost below his/her fair share. It is of no help to a low-income student because the merit aid just replaces need-based aid.</p>
<p>Offering merit aid benefits the college's bottom line, and unfairly distributes scholarship dollars to those who least need them. So my question is, are people on CC really aiming to game this system, or are they simply confusing need-based grants and merit awards?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Is it gaming the system to accept what's offered? I feel incredibly fortunate that my daughter qualifed for merit aid at several schools that were at the top of her list. If her heart had been set on a "need only" school, I would have bit the bullet and gone into debt to pay the amount the government feels I can afford. But, why would I if I don't have to? </p>
<p>And, don't forget ... it's the taxes that we so-called wealthy people pay that fund those government-sponsored grants. I for one don't begrudge my tax dollars going to fund education for low income students, and quite frankly get a little ticked off when I hear proponents of need-based aid complaining about merit aid programs. There's room in this world for both.</p>
<p>Here's a thread in which the ethics of merit aid were debated rather exhaustively:</p>
<p>My impression is that considerably more than "a few colleges" offer merit aid as a means of attracting students who might not otherwise attend. Some see accepting merit aid as unethical - I don't. Of course, those who feel it's "cheating" are free not to apply to merit aid institutions, or to refuse merit aid if offered.</p>
<p>celloguy,
Although your point about merit aid has been disucssed a lot on here, I might add, who are we to tell the colleges how they should spend their endowments? If they want to spend it to improve the profile of their students so be it. </p>
<p>Personally I think it's the government who should be helping to cushion low income students, but of course they don't see it that way, instead granting tax relief to the wealthiest and raising rates on student loans and cutting back grant money like crazy.</p>
<p>celloguy - I don't understand your reasoning. Have you considered the possibility that certain schools are attempting to attract the best possible students that they can by offering merit aid. These are students that otherwise may choose a different school were it not for the merit money. I see nothing wrong with the concept of using resources to attract the highest possible caliber of students. A school improves its academic environment by raising the caliber of the top students.</p>
<p>From my experience, merit decisions are often based on more than just straight SAT stats. They are based on SAT, GPA, leadership positions and other accomplishments during a students high school years. I find it only fair that if a student works harder and achieves more in high school, that they have the possibility of being rewarded for it. I believe this is the way our economy works. Those that achieve the most end up with the better jobs. This is being said, I also believe that schools or government should provide sufficient need based aid to allow deserving students to obtain an education. At the same time I also believe that an education at a private school is a privilege and not a right.</p>
<p>"celloguy - I don't understand your reasoning."</p>
<p>Yes, I can see that. I've browsed through several merit-related threads and it appears many posters don't understand the issue. I hear folks saying students should be rewarded for hard work in high school -- and of course that's true, and they are rewarded by acceptance at the best schools. I've heard merit aid being approvingly related to advertising (with the suggestion that I don't understand a market economy), but that is exactly my point -- is it in the common interest to run colleges the way we run Procter & Gamble? And of course it's also true that merit aid attracts top-scoring students (that was my original point), BUT those top-scoring students are going to be disproportionately the wealthy top-scoring students -- low-income families derive no advantage, so their kids will still choose the best schools over the merit-based scholarship. I'm suggesting merit aid dollars be diverted to better faculty, better facilities, and of course better NEED-based aid; that will benefit society as a whole.</p>
<p>weenie said "who are we to tell the colleges how they should spend their endowments? If they want to spend it to improve the profile of their students so be it."</p>
<p>Who are we? We are members of society who have a voice. College presidents and adcoms are debating these issues now, and "we" -- incoming students and their families and anyone else interested in an educated population, can support reform or not. I'm on the side of reform and I can see from this thread that many folks just don't understand that there is an issue.</p>
<p>jersey said: "I feel incredibly fortunate that my daughter qualifed for merit aid at several schools that were at the top of her list."</p>
<p>Sounds fair. If your daughter would have chosen one of those schools without merit aid, you haven't "gamed the system," and you're to be congratulated.</p>
<p>"it's the taxes that we so-called wealthy people pay that fund those government-sponsored grants. I for one don't begrudge my tax dollars going to fund education for low income students, and quite frankly get a little ticked off when I hear proponents of need-based aid complaining about merit aid programs."</p>
<p>I think, though, that you misunderstand my point. The federal government isn't offering merit aid. The wannabe colleges are. Government grants don't begin to cover tuition at top-tier colleges. If high-achieving low-income kids are going to attend good schools, the colleges' need-based aid needs to approach 100%, which is the case at top-tier schools. It's the less prestigious colleges that are offering merit aid as a bribe. That's the issue I'm raising.</p>
<p>Sorry celloguy, I understand your point, I just don't agree with it. </p>
<p>Maybe because we are a family who will "game the system" (which I don't believe is a game at all) as we are not eligible for any need based aid. Although we have managed to save quite a bit of money for the kids' educations, they would only be able to "choose" from our state system had we eliminated the possibility of merit aid. There is simply no way we could have afforded to pay full tuition for two kids at private schools. (And I'm not going get into all the crap about family choices, high living standards, high debt, blah blah -- none of which necessarily applies to us.)</p>
<p>I think the reality is that no one is going to compromise their own kids' educations on some vague, larger idea of reforming the system. And I do believe it is up to the schools and their endowers as to how they spend their own money. If they decide to spend it on attracting low income kids, well that's their choice too. </p>
<p>We all live with choices. For my kids they will never go to a "reach" school because of financial considerations. Am I whining about that? No. It's simply the way it is. Given the incredible, overwhelming cost of college education my kids are basically up for grabs to the highest bidder. ;)</p>
<p>weenie, thanks for clarifying. I respect your choice. We're a middle-income family and all four of my kids have benefited from high achievement and full need-based aid (my D did have a choice this year between a $15,000x4 merit award to Mt. Holyoke and a "better" (more academically challenging) college that met full need, so we never had such a hard choice). I certainly understand we all want the best education for our kids. It just seems that CC threads like this need to be challenged so at least parents realize how the system is manipulating them.</p>
<p>celloguy - I understand and I suppose in some ways almost philosohically agree with your basic premise. But as weenie points out - when it comes to a decision that immediately impacts my kids and family - things are not quite so clear. Both of my kids ended up at top 20 universities with very good merit money. For them attendance at these schools would have come at great financial sacrifice if the merit money had not been there. In the case of my daughter her three top choices, all of which would be reaches for most applicants, all offered her full tuition plus for 4 years. Yes, her final choice was the school that offered the best package, but at the same time it also happened to be the school that she liked the most. She established a goal when she began high school and then set out and accomplished it. Fortunately she has been very happy with her choice. I certainly would not have recomended that she turn down any of the offers.</p>
<p>I have been invited (urged, cajoled) by PM to make a guest appearance on this thread by posters whose kids are considering using their superior academic and extracurricular achievements to defeat the "system". I guess ST2 and I are two of the more egregious offenders (condor30 pops up here somewhere, too) so , after reading this thread, maybe I should make an appearance. What the heck. (Feels like old times, huh?)</p>
<p>Like ST2 , I have great sympathy for the (unfortunately) pollyanna-ish arguments celloguy is making. In a perfect world, where everyone was treated fairly in financial aid and everyone's parents were financially aware, sophisticated, and fortunate enough to avoid illness, layoffs, or other calamity, I, too would like it if all colleges could embrace need-based aid fully prior to awarding merit aid. (But I'd still think there was a place for merit awards.) But, that ain't what is happening out here in the real world. This ain't a perfect world and it would be less perfect, not more fair by a long shot, without merit aid for high achieving kids. </p>
<p>For those who don't know me, my family followed the very large footsteps of ST2's daughter and others (thanks, again ;)). My daughter (with my help) searched for and found several wonderful schools where she would be competitive for their highest awards. She accepted one of those awards and so far at least , has not glanced backwards. Not once. (By one way of calculating , and if you squint a little, she received a million dollars in merit awards. That ought to send some of you over the edge.;))</p>
<p>The simple truth is the FA system is not uniformly fair, is ripe with abuse and well, it's just plain non-sensical at times. It finds value in sole proprietorships that have no market value. It excludes from income certain retirement vehicles but not others (rental property held in a self directed retirement account is excluded, but is an asset otherwise. Say what?). Carefully constructed artifice is usually not necessary to create inequities - usually a well funded employer pension worth 100's of thousands of dollars is enough to create some of the dumber FA results imaginable. But artifice and trickery combined with the stupidity at most of the FA offices can yield some real doozies. </p>
<p>Just an example of what I find so repulsive about our need based system at highly selective schools: </p>
<p>Let's take a small town dentist and spouse in a low earning part of the country. Their kid wants to go Princeton (very generous school.) Make $250K gross from the practice. After direct costs they net $100K before taxes. They have zero sheltered retirement. They have zero pension. They have a 4-plex worth $360,000 that also throws off some income ($20K to the return after depreciation) that they plow back into the 4-plex mortgage ($60K remaining) in hopes that someday it will be a retirement vehicle yielding $4,000 a month before rental expenses. </p>
<p>They own their home ($150K value) and it has $100,000 of equity in it, in hopes that it will be a paid off place to live when the income drops to zero from their practice. There is no lifetime health insurance for retirees available to them. He thinks "maybe Sue and I can live off that $4k and social security if our home is paid off and we live frugally and , hopefully, we both die before either of us gets sick."</p>
<p>The FA officer finds that his "business" has a value of one times gross or $250,000 (sometimes much higher, maybe two times gross) + hard assets (equipment, A/R), or let's say $350,000. There is no market for that dental practice anywhere near that number. People go to their dentist because they like their dentist. They don't know the new dentist. (If you don't like dentist in the example, use attorney or stripper.)</p>
<p>They have $80,000 saved - total. Emergencies, college, new roof, business reversal. The kid has $20K from the well intentioned but poorly informed grandparents. </p>
<p>Now lets change the story. Same folks .Same hours. Same quality of work. Same kid wants to go Princeton. Same jobs at same wages. Dentist and dental office manager for Dentech, Inc. Except, they have $300,000 of equity in their house, only $10,000 in the bank (they just love St. Tropez-it is sooo chic!!!), retirement that pays 50% of pre-retirement wages ($5K a month for life) , lifetime health insurance coverage for retirees at no cost (or substantially reduced costs), a 401 (k) that has $500,000 in his and $200,000 in hers. [BTW, when they sold the practice to Dentech they received qualified stock options that if they were to exercize them now, would be worth another $500K, but let's not even consider them. Princeton wouldn't . Too many contingencies. ] Oh, and if they are" fired" or Dentech closes the office , they have a set severance package for one year's wages. The kid's grandparents bought him a new car for $20K. </p>
<p>To recap. Princeton. Generous. Same folks . Same jobs. $20K for a brand new car. Family A? $60K EFC. Family B? $24,000 EFC. Seems fair. (It could be worse. Princeton is the most generous school around.)</p>
<p>Fix this, celloguy. Then we talk. Until then, show me the money. :)</p>
<p>Anybody who needs help with a merit package, my pm still works and I'll try to get to it. Be patient.</p>
<p>Now to slink back away, unnoticed.......</p>