I will be graduating in the spring with a bachelors in marine science, biology, and mathematics, and I’ve started looking into graduate schools. I had a conversation today with my mentor from my summer research internship, and he highly suggested a masters before going into a PhD. It started me thinking about things, since I had been saying I want to go into a PhD program right out of undergrad ever since I knew I wanted to go into research. Does anyone have any suggestions or experience with this issue? I would be looking at marine science programs if that helps at all…
Lots of people go straight into a Ph.D. program. There are some fields where a Masters first is recommended but it is not universal. You should ask your mentor why he/she suggests a Masters first. It might be that you are not competitive enough to get into a Ph.D. program right away but it might be something else too.
He told me about the benefits of going into a Masters first; it wasn’t a matter of my competitiveness (he actually commented on how strong of an applicant I would be for any grad school position, and wrote an email to a professor who had contacted him about seeking a grad student enumerating my strengths while I was sitting in his office). I’m simply looking for multiple opinions so I’m not resting my decision solely on his experience.
This is sometimes the case in biology fields but I have seen it done successfully both ways. In my field, physics, it is not recommended to get a Masters if one wants a Ph.D. There is really no need to spend 2 years writing a Masters Thesis and then start over for a Ph.D. The trend is to try to reduce the time to Ph.D. and cutting out a Masters Thesis is an excellent way to do this.
Generally, I think if you 100% know - or really anything over about 85-90% know - that you want a PhD and a research career, there’s really no point in getting a master’s first if you are competitive for PhD programs. MS programs are frequently unfunded, and often you can only count about a semester’s worth of credits towards a PhD - so you lose some time and potentially a lot of money. Most PhD programs allow you to earn an MS along the way, so if you change your mind later you can leave with an MS.
A lot of professors give this advice because they think an MS will make you better prepared for doctoral programs - more time to flesh out your research ideas, more time to develop skills, more time to prepare yourself for the rigorous publishing you’ll need to do in a PhD program to prepare yourself for the academic job market. I don’t necessarily agree with that, either. I’ll admit that as a fresh out-of-undergrad doctoral student, I did flounder a bit with learning academic norms in my first two years. I didn’t realize how important publishing was, and how early. But…I think you’re sort of supposed to flounder a bit, and your advisor is supposed to help you get your footing. If you go in with the determination to work hard and publish (and have the luck and foresight to get on a project that’s at a point where you CAN publish), then you’ll be fine.
Thanks for the replies! Some of the benefits he numerated were 1) A traditional BS -> MS -> PhD path is more recognized by potential employers as being a legitimate path than a BS -> PhD path, 2) If you do your MS first, as long as it is through a different institution as your PhD, the MS broadens the scope of your network and your experience and gives you more opportunities for connections later on in your career, and 3) An MS serves as a better transition from more class-based BS to a research-based degree. Taking those factors into consideration, would you still recommend looking into more PhD programs? My application would be pretty strong (3.75 GPA, haven’t taken GRE yet but I’ve gotten pretty high on practice tests, 3 summer research internships including Hollings internship through NOAA, lab experience sophomore through senior year, will have two publications under my belt by the end of senior year, one as first author).
I work at a Marine Science graduate school-- There is an option here to bypass the MS degree and go straight to Ph.D. That program requires interviews and faculty approval. You’ll need to consider the time-frame it’ll take you to complete your degree(s), whether you decide to get the MS then PhD, or go straight to PhD:
From the school catalog, time-length to complete Ph.D. degree:
4 years for a student entering with a M.S. from the School of Marine Science (same school)
5 years for a student entering with a M.S. or equivalent degree from another institution
6 years for a student who is approved to bypass the M.S. degree
So, at least for this school, if you get an MS at a different school, then come here for your Ph.D., you’ll need to add 1 year of schooling to your schedule.
That extra time is pretty much what I have observed. I am not sure that the MS really provides all that much benefit. Once you get involved in research you will start going to conferences and get the opportunity to broaden your network.
What? No. If you want an academic job, academic employers won’t care whether you got a master’s before your PhD - all they will care about is your doctoral degree. And even with a non-academic job employers most likely won’t care.
That’s true, but I don’t think that’s worth paying $$$ and spending 2 extra years for. There are other ways to broaden your network - like going to conferences, collaborating on research projects and giving invited talks at other departments.
Maybe, but many people transition just fine from their bachelor’s to a PhD program. It all depends on your personal readiness.