Master's of engineering without bachelor's of engineering?!

<p>Don’t try to confuse the argument. If you graduated from an engineering school, you have an 82% shot at passing the test the first time (I’m looking at chemical engineers’ historic numbers). If you put even an hour or two into studying, you’re probably over 90%. If you weed out the people who shouldn’t be there (those from ABET-accredited “engineering technology schools”, or students who graduated in 8 years with a 1.9 GPA), you’re probably close to 95%. That’s an easy test.</p>

<p>The Raw rate takes into account a number of factors that you mentioned that doesn’t come into play, here: people with 20 years of experience as plant operators taking the exam to try to get licensed, students taking it sophomore or junior year as a practice test, the guy that failed it 6 times, etc. NCEES doesn’t include that because it’s misleading. </p>

<p>The fact is, the FE is an easy test and with a little bit of studying, the average engineering student from a reasonable school should easily pass it. I don’t understand why that’s so hard to agree with?</p>

<p>But I think we’re getting off topic:</p>

<p>The FE is not a qualification that a person is an engineer after completing an MS degree (with a non-engineering BS). Most natural science majors should be able to pass the basic Math, Statistics, chem, materials, econ, ethics, thermo, e-mag, etc. portions and pass the exam without ever taking a single engineering class or really understanding engineering problems.</p>

<p>Can a chemistry major design a distillation column? No, but he can probably pass a thermo test. That’s how the FE is written. The P&P is a different story.</p>

<p>

If you attended an ABET engineering program, then your odds of passing the FE exam on the first try are about 75%. The number is higher for some modules (like ChemE), and lower for others, but 75% is a reasonable average. (In practice, ChemE is probably one of the least popular FE modules; the general module is probably the most popular and most representative of overall rates).</p>

<p>Many of those who do fail will keep taking the test, and some will ultimately pass. So probably 80-90% of ABET engineering grads who try to pass the test eventually will do so. However, rates alone do not necessarily prove that a test is easy. Many state bar exams have 80-90% pass rates, yet no one doubts that law students take bar exams very seriously.</p>

<p>You claim that many people pass with minimal preparation, and certainly this is true in some cases. But if the exam can be passed so easily, then why is there is such a flourishing FE test prep industry? Publishers offer test prep packages that typically cost hundreds of dollars; PPI alone claims (literally) millions of buyers for their materials. And of course, universities and commercial test prep companies routinely offer FE exam prep courses that cost even more. </p>

<p>

No, excluding the technology grads would have zero effect on official NCEES pass rates, because they are already excluded. NCEES indicates that their “official” pass rates are for graduates of “EAC/ABET” programs, which means engineering specifically. ABET-accredited engineering technology programs are “TAC/ABET”. </p>

<p>Excluding people with low GPAs would likely increase the pass rates, but this is true of any test in any discipline. </p>

<p>

Of course. But your previous post suggested that an 82% rate was “very generous”, given that it included such people, including “all the people who don’t have an engineering degree”. So you were the one who put this factor into play.</p>

<p>The point is simply that high NCEES pass rates only apply to first-time takers from ABET-accredited engineering programs (not ABET technology or computer science) programs. The overall pass rate is much lower.</p>

<p>If you go for master’s in chemical engineering from b.s in chemistry, do they let you take all the undergrad courses for 1-2 years you missed so that you have no problem catching up in the master’s program? Or does it depend on which school you go?</p>

<p>I have an undergrad in Biology-Im currently seeking Post-bac in Civil Engineering-it is such a slow progress; Im consindering a Master’s in Civil Engineering-Am I making the right decision; if so, how can I get any/some training in the industry- Please HELP with the best advice that you can give-</p>

<p>^ check out <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/733893-masters-engineering-without-bachelors-engineering.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/733893-masters-engineering-without-bachelors-engineering.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I have no experience in the field, but getting back to the original question, I’m guessing that the potential for relatively speedy completion of graduate studies for a holder of a non-engineering B.S. degree specifically depends on the fields of study, as was referenced earlier in this thread. For example, from a quick look at the M.S. Aerospace Engineering program at Virginia Tech it appears that a Physics B.S. major could finish the 30 M.S. credits requirement (non-thesis) rather easily in one year of study. And VaTech is no cakewalk.</p>

<p>So who would you guys hire? A person with a BS in engineering or someone with only a MS in engineering?</p>

<p>I have a BS in Mathematics in statistics track here in US. I am interested in getting MS in Electrical engineering… Does anyone knows schools that accept students without Engineering Degree for MS program…</p>

<p>Sure: MIT. I know plenty of people who have graduated from MIT with master’s degrees in engineering who didn’t have undergraduate engineering degrees.</p>

<p>Kal2011…</p>

<p>Yes you can but because you are going from Math to EE, you will need to complete some undergraduate EE courses to be fully admitted.</p>

<p>I did the B.S. Mathematics to M.S. Engineering route but my M.S. is more of a systems engineering degree so my Math degree pretty much covered the Systems Engineering prerequisites. </p>

<p>EE is a different ballgame.</p>

<p>It’s possible, but as others have said, usually you have to first complete a certain set of pre-requisites.</p>

<p>Some schools, such as the Cal States, allow you to be enrolled in the master’s program while you are completing your prerequisites, which is useful for qualifying for financial aid.</p>

<p>Double post.</p>

<p>As others have indicated, many graduate engineering departments accept applicants whom posess only a BS degree in Mathematics, or Physics or even Chemistry.</p>

<p>Very few masters programs really require an undergraduate degree in the same field. The only real issue is preparation, and since graduate degrees get progressively more specific, all they really care about is your preparation in that specialty. A certain amount of remedial work is acceptable to most programs, as even same-field undergrad programs may not adequately prepare you for grad work in certain specialities, but they usually draw the line at around a semester or so of classes - perhaps 3-4.</p>

<p>This means that same-field undergrads have more options for grad school and will require less prep work once they get there. There are still limits, of course - NO ONE comes out of undergrad prepared for EVERY speciality. </p>

<p>Related-field undergrads will be in a similar boat, but the options narrow. There will still be an area or two where you can go in with little or no remedial work, but there will be more situations where you just don’t qualify. Still, it happens - in EE I know numerous people with math or physics degrees.</p>

<p>Loosely-related undergrads may only qualify under certain circumstances - someone with an urban planning undergrad could get into a masters program in civil engineering, but only if they had the right undergrad coursework and found a very specific program, professor, and research project. Even then they would probably need a semester of catch-up work.</p>

<p>When you get out with your degree, realize also that your marketability is keyed to your TOTAL education. Just as your grad options narrow or widen, so do your job options later on. Having a masters alone does not make the world your oyster.</p>

<p>Hi, I’m having issues with the FE exam. I also have a non-engineering undergrad degree, with an MEng degree. Does this qualify me to sit for the FE exam?? It just seems so difficult and to vary by state. Some sources say I can and some say I can’t. Anyone have experience or know someone who had the same situation??</p>

<p>I think an engineering Master’s with a non-engineering bachelor’s is a bad idea personally. A Master’s degree (atleast an MSE) is simply a specialization degree. You take one (maybe two) areas of your undergraduate education and expand on them. You’re not expanding on your entire undergraduate education (like many people often, and incorrectly, assume). </p>

<p>That being said, a Master’s without a bachelor’s in engineering will undoubtedly require a large number of pre-requisite courses in order to qualify for the Master’s classes. The problem is that the breadth of those pre-requisite courses will not be great as it would have been had you completed a Bachelor’s degree first (you’re essentially just taking the bare minimum in order to qualify for particular classes for your Master’s). So, you can see that your engineering foundation will be more fragmented than your typical BSE -> MSE individual’s would be. </p>

<p>You can see an example of what I’m talking about [url=&lt;a href=“Welcome to Civil and Environmental Engineering at CMU - Civil and Environmental Engineering - Carnegie Mellon University”&gt;Welcome to Civil and Environmental Engineering at CMU - Civil and Environmental Engineering - Carnegie Mellon University]here[/url</a>]. Compare those pre-requisite courses with, say… [url=&lt;a href=“http://utsa.edu/ucat/coe/cedept.html]this.[/url”&gt;404 - PAGE NOT FOUND | UTSA]this.[/url</a>]</p>

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<p>Eh?</p>

<p>It really depends on what one plans to do with the MSE/M.Eng. Many M.S./M.Eng in Industrial/Systems Engineering degrees are basically applied math degrees, so a B.A./B.S. in Math will not need many prereqs. </p>

<p>In some engineering areas (especially software engineering), to get hired for senior technical positions, the requirements may be given like the following:</p>

<p>B.S. + 15 years exp OR M.S. + 8 years exp</p>

<p>In that case, it is better to get a M.S./M.Eng to cut down the years of experience needed. On top of that, federal contracting will allow higher billing rates to those with a M.S./M.Eng and really do not care that much about the difference of the B.S./M.S. majors.</p>

<p>My point? There are avenues and reasons for multiple scenarios when it comes to specific majors and undergraduate/graduate studies.</p>

<p>Me?..my B.S. is in Computational Mathematics but my M.S. is in Engineering (no specialization) but my specialization resembles more of a systems engineeing degree.</p>

<p>I didn’t care, I just wanted a technical M.S. so I could get the higher billing rates.</p>

<p>Well, I can give one example in detail. My wife had an M.S. in Math. and decided to get an M.S. in Civil Engineering (she always liked building structures, even built a house completely by herself). I am not sure which of the following were deficiencies, which are part of the M.S. and which were taken just because she was interested in the subject, but here’s her curriculum (she passed the FE, too, and even taught FE prep. courses). As you can see, the underdrad portion was very thorough and substantial. Her specialty was wastewater treatment and water supply/purification.</p>

<p>Undergrad.: Autocad. for Civil Eng./ Transportation Eng./ Statics/ Dynamics/ Mechanics of Materials/ Structural Eng. I/ Structural Eng. II/ Fluid Mechanics/ Basic Thermo./ Geotech. Eng./ Properties of Materials/ Adv. Autocad./ Water Res. Eng./ Reinforced Concrete Design/ Environmental Eng.</p>

<p>Grad.: Advanced Strength of Materials & Structural Eng./ Adv. Finite Elements/ Arctic Hydrological Eng./ Unit Processes: Biological/ Groundwater Dynamics/ Env. Mngmt. & Law/ Arctic Eng./ Hazardous & Toxic Waste Mngmt.</p>

<p>Are you registered as an engineer if you have you have your masters but without the bachelors?</p>