Completely agree, @beebee3. We are going to be redeveloping our list after all these great commentary.
Correct, she wants to avoid large urban areas – she likes the ideas of small/medium campuses, small class sizes and cute neighboring towns/small cities. She is is bilingual and very interested in Study Abroad. We will look into Kalamazoo. Thanks!
If she hasn’t already, getting her Illinois State Seal of Bi-literacy would be a good idea. Gives her another way to show her mastery of a second language.
There are parents out there with LDs - I’m not one. And I’m sure they’ll respond. But when I hear that and kids wanting big names, I cringe - because what if they fall off the cliff because it wasn’t the right environment.
There are schools out there (like Arizona) that base on gpa and not rigor. In fact if you have a lower GPA but rigor, at least in merit, you are penalized.
I’d probably look at US News rankings for LACs if you want an LAC - most you had are - and start at - 60 and down - and see what each offers in regards to town -
Does Allegheny or Wooster or K have a town (K does because of relation to WMU) or WIllamette (in Salem Oregon) or Beloit or Albion. #60 or 150 doesn’t matter.
So see who has the services (even if minor) and city/environment you’d like. Don’t dismiss the public schools - who may (or may not) have the services you need. Some may be more chill than others - a Truman State or a small Wisconsin branch campus or a SUNY as some recommended, etc.
Has your student visited any schools?
Glad you appreciate my candor on your list. Others find me too blunt.
But it’s all with the best intention - and the 4.0 with 12 APs and 1500 SAT are gonna struggle with Amherst - so yeah, it’s not gonna happen - and frankly, if it did, it might be a huge struggle.
Best of luck
The SUNYs have a designated coordinator (I am sure many schools do). You can also look at SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry. They seem to have biology majors that may suit your daughter.
While SUNY ESF is small (maybe about 2000 students), it is located on (next to?) the campus of Syracuse University. Not sure if this would be a positive or a negative for your daughter.
What about Beloit and Kalamazoo colleges?
Since she’s open to women’s only colleges, what about Mt Holyoke?
As a reach, what about Macalester?
Seconding the recommendation of Ohio Wesleyan, which also offers an entire major in botany.
I’d also think about investigating Delaware Valley in Pennsylvania which offers majors in horticulture and agronomy.
U. of Wisconsin-River Falls might be worth looking into as well. It offers agronomy and horticulture, but also biotechnology, agricultural and environmental engineering, natural resource conservation, etc. Lots of possibilities for someone interested in bio but not premed.
@AustenNut @MWolf @twogirls @tsbna44 Thank you!
This has all been incredibly helpful. Below is an updated rough list of targets that we will start researching, evaluating and visiting. Very different from where we started and definitely seems more on point from where we started.
Potential Reaches: Wake Forest, Wesleyan, University of Richmond, Macalester, Smith College, William & Mary, Bryn Mawr, Denison University
Potential Matches: Illinois Wesleyan, Lawrence University, College of Wooster, Lafayette College, Kalamazoo College, Dickinson College, St. Lawrence University, St. Olaf College, Knox College, University of Denver, Ohio Wesleyan, Franklin & Marshall, DePauw University
Potential Safeties: Kansas State University, Kalamazoo College, Dickinson College, Wheaton College (Massachusetts), Augustana College, Drake University
I’d remove the first two. I think beyond reach. Even Richmond and Mac but I don’t want to be too depressing. And W&M - not gonna happen OOS.
Lafayette and F&M are fine. But reaches. They replace those I say to remove. I don’t see admission but there’s a better chance than the other four. Dickinson is not a safety. More high match low reach in my opinion.
K state is interesting. I like it. But it’s a larger state school. Just different than the rest. Only hear good things.
I think the list works. But if you reduce, take those off the top.
Hope your research yields good results in regard to fit for your student. If not, we’ll find more.
Ps the reason I’m so harsh on the assessments is the lack of rigor when it was available to the student. For top schools and those a tier down, it’s gonna hurt.
I am a little late to this thread. Wow. That is quite a long list. As I understand it, your daughter has just completed her sophomore year and won’t be taking any APs during junior year or taking the SAT or ACT? The good news is that you are very early in this process and you have plenty of time to research, visit and find the school that will be a perfect fit for your daughter. Folks have given you a lot of great suggestions for match and safety schools. I would also suggest that you check out the list of the Colleges that Change Lives. Some of them have already been mentioned, but it is a group of smaller “hidden gem” schools that could provide a great educational experience for your daughter.
https://ctcl.org/
I’m going to have to back up the tough love you just received from @tsbna44. The lack of rigor is a big problem for the schools you have in your reach category. I have often seen parents of LD kids on these boards who don’t seem to understand that while colleges can’t discriminate against a student with learning differences, it does not mean that students with LDs are given a pass for a lack of rigor or lack of extracurriculars.
I get it. My S22 is ADD and dyslexic. I have seen how much harder he has had to work than his sibling and his friends who are not dyslexic. He just finished his freshman year at William & Mary. He’s done great but he has found William and Mary very challenging.This is a kid who took 10 AP classes in high school in addition to multivariable calculus and linear algebra. He also had standardized test scores in the 99th percentile, played a year round sport, tutored, had a paid summer research position, did volunteer work, and had high level recognition in the arts. I am not telling you this to brag. He is pretty average for an out of state student at William and Mary. Even if your daughter could get accepted at some of these reach schools, you need to ask yourself how she would be able to handle it. If she is not confident enough to take AP classes in high school, would she be overwhelmed in an environment where everyone else has taken advanced coursework, excelled and are better prepared than she is? Getting in to college is just the beginning. You need to find the right environment where she will thrive and be successful. My best advice is to focus your research and visits on the safety and match schools. Its perfectly fine to throw in applications to a few of the reaches if you feel they would be a great fit for her. Wishing you the best of luck with your search.
For a student who wants to be in the field of biology, but does NOT want to be pre-med, I really like the idea of schools that offer applied biology majors such as those you listed above. A general liberal arts BA biology degree is just not that employable (as others above have stated, because so many major in general biology with a plan of med school, but then don’t do it.) So it can be better to get a degree with more concrete skills and focus.
Got it! Makes total sense on the assessments and we like straightforwardness, especially on this stuff. Better to frame a realistic list, even for further research and visits at this point, so we are more efficient with our time. Yeah, Kansas State will be a size test. I’ll circle back if preferences/majors change and we need to adjust the list. Thanks again!
I think Ohio Wesleyan could be put firmly into Safeties category. It’s a great school, very supportive of its STEM students and the town is small but very cute. Close to Columbus if she wants to venture out a bit.
Also, I don’t know if you’ve looked in Lake Forest College in Illinois and decided against it but it, too, has a good Bio department, very cute campus and great cute little town a 10 min walk away from campus as well as a 10 minute walk (in opposite direction) to a very cute beach on Lake Michigan.
Will echo the recommendation for Mt. Holyoke and suggest it might be a better reach school on the women’s college landscape than Smith. A bit easier admit, and more quirky than Smith which had a very ‘gunner’ vibe when we visited. Extremely impressive but maybe not the vibe your daughter seems to be looking for?
Wow! Thank you, @Greatpyrmom, for sharing! Such valuable perspective and definitely helps us see that we should cross W&M off the list, haha! Too bad, such a beautiful campus and we are early American history nerds. The list is long now – we still need to vet, visit and finalize a highly targeted list for submitting applications.
One thread, 30ish comments in, and I can already see the hours the CC community is going to save us by keeping us laser focused on right-fit schools. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I really like the K-State idea! For a student who loves bio/biochem but doesn’t want to work in health care (which is very much not for everyone, as many realize too late!), there are a lot of really fascinating opportunities in agriculture and related fields, many of which are at all not on the radar of kids who haven’t grown up in agricultural communities. A strong bio background is needed for many careers in horticulture, soil science, food science/safety, and so on. And it’s much easier for students to get connected to these fields at a college with an ag school, even if they don’t aspire to a farming-related career per se. The K-State website is a good place to browse majors and the kinds of research, graduate study, and careers that they can lead to. And the school itself is, while not LAC-sized, still a manageably-sized and supportive place to study - I’ve never heard a bad thing about it here on CC. She could very well qualify for the University Honors Program there, which would give her priority registration, Honors-specific classes (and the opportunity to upgrade non-honors classes to honors via contract agreements), and housing at the Honors House (which would provide a smaller, sub-community with high academic standards). I think it makes a great point of comparison with the small LAC’s, which could also provide a great experience for her but with arguably a narrower range of potential applications for what she’s learning.
If the idea of a manageably-sized public U with an ag school appeals, she might also look at UVM and UDel. The honors programs at these may be out of reach, but the schools themselves should be matches, I think. (Of course, UIUC has a great ag school too, with a somewhat less reachy stat profile than Arts & Sciences, and an Undeclared option that’s designed to allow students to explore the many interesting major options, including plant biotechnology, food science, agronomy and many more. It’s a large university, but there are only about 2700 undergrads in ACES. If your daughter has already ruled out applying to UIUC A&S, it might be worth tossing an undeclared app at ACES to keep the option open.)
You’ve got lots of good LAC options there also. Many of them are “Colleges That Change Lives” schools, so check out that website if you haven’t already ( ctcl.org ), both for the profiles of the schools you’re already considering, and to perhaps notice others that might be of interest.
Seconding Connecticut College as a reach that’s known for strong botany - potentially a good replacement for Wesleyan on your reach list. (Conn College actually exists because of the failure of Wesleyan’s first attempt to go coed.)
As a less reachy alternative to Wake Forest, maybe consider Sewanee? They have majors in Forestry and Natural Resources in addition to bio and biochem, in a gorgeous (albeit a bit remote) setting with a Greek system that’s known for being inclusive and supportive (perhaps more so than Wake’s).
In a completely different vein, if she really wanted to double down on Spanish and studying abroad, she could consider St. Louis U, which has a campus in Madrid. In addition to the traditional semester-abroad option, students can elect a 2+2 program where the entire first two years are spent in Spain.
Thank you, @fiftyfifty1. I am 100% unfamiliar with the sciences and our daughter is the first family member to want to study a science, so we’re clueless about the degree, pitfalls and career paths. One of our many learning curves during this process. For someone who does NOT want to be pre-med, is the general rule of thumb to avoid anything that says general biology or pre-med biology, and instead look for specializations like botany, biotech, etc.?
I completely agree that lack of rigor + test optional will put the “reach” schools out of reach.
That said, saying “no thanks” to rigor, and going test optional can 100% be the right decision for a kid. It was the choice we made for our rising junior who will finish with maybe only 2 AP classes, and may not take the ACT or SAT at all.
Luckily, there are plenty of wonderful schools out there that will simultaneously nurture and challenge students who have taken regular level high school classes.
Not necessarily, but if you get just a general biology degree, plan on needing at least a masters in order to get some concrete skills.
Yeah, Lake Forest jumps on and off our list. We tend to favor Illinois Wesleyan, Augustana and Knox on paper, but I also read LF has great lab facilities and Chicago is working to be a life sciences hub, so makes sense to consider a small college closer to the city.
We will be checking out Mount Holyoke, too!
Premeds will be found in the frosh / soph courses for any type of biology major, such as general and organic chemistry, and general biology. However, as students move into upper level courses, premeds likely become less common in the plant or agricultural areas compared to areas like molecular biology, biochemistry, genetics, biomedical engineering, etc., although premeds can be found in any major.
This, plus, at many schools you will be surrounded by premeds in your classes… and the attendant grade-grubbing and preoccupation with med school admissions can get tiresome pretty quickly if you’re not on that path. (Even if you are, tbh!)