Wow! Super helpful, @aquapt! Fascinating about St Louis U – good to know. Lots to digest here – thank you!
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One more thought - since she’s just a rising junior now, you could still look at ag-related pre-college programs for next summer. This might help either to give her a comfort level with the ag-related possibilities, or clarify that it’s not for her. Pre-College Programs | College of Agricultural, Consumer and Environmental Sciences | UIUC The STEM in ACES one looks particularly appropriate.
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A big and not so hard to get into W&M - at least I saw similarities - is Miami of Ohio. You’d get in there - but whether the size is right and if they offer the necessary things, I don’t know. There is a small town.
It’s not as academic as W&M but just the feel of the campus (to us anyway) made it seem like a large W&M.
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Have you looked at the other Augustana (South Dakota)?
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My daughter was a straight biology major with premed intentions. She gave up on premed after shadowing and realizing that she strongly disliked primary care, and that is where the need is.
To answer your question about specialization within biology, she did not specialize. She was a straight biology major (chemistry and Spanish minors) who loved genetics. Similar to your daughter, she did have an interest within the broader biology field.
Her friend in college was also a biology major with a strong interest in plant biology (currently in a phd program in this specialization). Both she and my daughter took many/all of their classes with premed students. There was no distinction- maybe in some schools there would be? That is certainly something to investigate.
As far as biology not being an employable field- it depends on a lot of factors. My daughter was (still is) employed with a reasonable salary. By reasonable, I mean she was/is able to pay her bills (she’s also very cheap lol).
Following college she taught science and was on the teacher’s pay scale, which was quite good in the city she was in. She is currently a Clinical Research Coordinator working on studies with a physician. She continues to make a salary that works for her and pays her bills. She works with peers who are applying to medical school, nursing school, psychology programs, etc.
She received other job offers with her general biology degree: genetic counselor assistant, research assistant in a lab. Most of these jobs are what I call “gap year” positions, in that most of these young adults plan to return to school for various careers. My daughter is heading back to school this fall.
Her friend with the interest in botany went straight to her PhD program. Despite having a general biology degree, she did a lot of research, activity etc during undergrad related to her interest in plants.
As far as your list goes, I agree that some of these schools continue to be reaches. Wake forest and William and Mary are two that come to mind, although there are more. I would focus on schools that are a good academic fit and also have the botany specialization that your daughter seems to have an interest in. I would ask about research and various activities within her area of interest (especially if she has a general biology major). I would ask if she would be taking classes with the pre-health students.
Having a learning disability will not prevent your daughter from achieving her goals (I know many who went on for a PhD), but your daughter’s lack of rigor will be an obstacle for the reach schools on your list.
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I agree with your bottom line advice - but I haven’t found this characterization (stereotype) to be representative for this college or other highly selective schools:
Based on the various selective colleges that my daughter’s friends attended (including Amherst), and her own peers at her college, I get the sense that colleges are generally successful in admitting students that can handle their academic rigor.
Frankly none of them “struggled”, but yes, they all maintained excellent work ethics, study habits and time management that they had already refined during high school.
And yes, I know of students who struggled, but it didn’t matter that they attended state colleges or community colleges…
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Sorry - I meant struggle admission wise…i.e. it’s not a given.
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College rigor likely varies less than admission selectivity (with some exceptions like Caltech). So, at the high end of admission selectivity, it is likely that the college is choosing to admit a small subset of a large group of applicants who can all handle the rigor. But at the low end of selectivity (e.g. an open admission community college or a minimally selective four year college), it is not assured that all admitted students are capable of handling the rigor of college. Hence the difference in graduation rates across colleges, where graduation rates tend to be highly correlated with admission selectivity (but also with correlation to whether students are financially capable of finishing).
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As mentioned above look into Kansas State. There is a huge research facility that is opening there and lots of new opportunities for research. My son is dyslexic and did great there. The sciences all have recitation periods (like a review of the week) and the professors take plenty of time for the students in office hours. Lots of varying opportunities. The sciences have specific pre health sections so she can easily just stay away from those sections. It is a big campus with a very small feel. My son had similar statistics and felt very challenged there. He is now in his 4th year of veterinary school at the top of his class so felt very well prepared. An out of the box idea to look into. They do offer some very nice scholarships based on merit too and the honors college and study abroad opportunities are excellent.
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Thanks again for all the helpful perspective and candor on this thread. My DD has spent the last few days digging into college majors and she is doubling down on botany and adding another major of high interest - food science. Since smaller colleges are harder to find with one or both majors, she’s willing to visit/consider larger universities that offer both undergrad degrees. Below are schools with both majors that she is looking at. Any feedback on how these align with her stats shared in the original message?
UC Davis
UW Madison
The Ohio State University
Purdue
Iowa State
Kansas State
University of Minnesota
NC State
Rutgers University - New Brunswick
University of Missouri
University of Arizona
UMass - Amherst
University of Georgia
These schools look to be strong in both plant and food sciences. When we do narrow the field and visit, DD wants to confirm the big college feels smallish/cozy and ideally doesn’t require a lot of public/university transit to get to classes (she likes walkability). And she wants to make sure she fits in academically since she’s entering with a high GPA but very little rigor. Thoughts? Schools on the list we should prioritize or eliminate? Many thanks!
I hate to be a buzz kill again, but UGA would be a reach for your daughter. They put a high priority on AP and IB classes. The average admit this past cycle took 10 advanced classes and had a GPA of 4.19. They also require an SAT or ACT, so she might want to look elsewhere if she is adamant about applying test optional. I’m sure others will chime in about the rest of your list.
Edited to add: have you considered Auburn? I believe they offer both plant and food science majors. It would be a much more likely admit based on your daughters profile. It is a very walkable campus and feels smaller than it is. They rank very highly for colleges with the happiest students and have a great sense of community. They also offer great support for ADD and LD students.
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We visited UMass-Amherst, fantastic school. Also feels very large, there were student parking lots bigger than an IKEA parking lot which were completely full, and while it is known for great food - our info session bragged about 4000 sushi rolls being consumed each day? or week? Something pretty astounding at the time - the school goes through a LOT of food each week. While I think your daughter would have an ok shot of admission there as an OOS student, I don’t think she would qualify for much, if any, merit aid. So plan on paying full price if she gets admitted.
I’ve only heard great things about Iowa State, and that would be a safety for her GPA stats. Don’t know if they are test optional, that’s something to check.
Rutgers campus is huge and dispersed across a fairly large location. Plan on having to take buses. Again, also plan on no merit aid.
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Rutgers has the buses. UGA - in my opinion - is as large a school campus as I’ve been on. I saw lots of dorms on the fringes that require buses but others have said their kids didn’t need.
NC State isn’t that big - but it has a campus for engineering - not sure if other subjects - like a mile away.
Ohio State is large - very large.
Purdue surprisingly compact.
Arizona - very walkable.
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No worries about the buzz kill. That’s exactly the type of feedback we need. Auburn wasn’t on our radar. Until now. Thank you!!
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Great insight and good to know RE: Rutgers! Thank you!
People love Auburn (very nice town and campus) - and if you’re from Illinois - you all send a ton of students to U of Alabama (as it’s 58% OOS). If you’re now looking at large schools…big merit there well with a test score. UAH would be a smaller campus that’s very respected and affordable.
Once anyone visits Bama it’s game over…someone just flipped from Pitt on the thread. My son flipped from Purdue…it’s just really really nice. Modern.
There was 1562 Illinoisans in the Spring…only Georgia and Texas sent more.
My kid rode his bike but they do have a bus system. It’s a large campus but my son said he only used 1/4 of it.
I forget if we had this chat earlier - but if you’re looking at big schools like Auburn, then i’ll throw it out again.
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@smorecollege Of the list you posted, I think Iowa State, Kansas State, University of Missouri, and University of Arizona are probably safeties, or at least likelies. Many of the rest are high matches to reaches for a general biology major. Since your daughter is interested in botany, plant science, and food science, she may want to apply to the colleges of agriculture at these schools, as that is usually where these majors are found. The agricultural college majors at flagship universities are usually easier admits/less selective than biology and biochem majors, which generally have more prospective pre-med students. I know this is true for Penn State.
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SLU is a great mid-size school for your list. Next to Grand Center Arts district & restaurants, City Foundry food hall and shopping, not far from Central West End/Forest Park and ample university-provided transportation. St. Louis is a plant science hub, and several SLU professors collaborate with the Danforth Plant Science Center.
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Rutgers is big and the New Brunswick campus has 5 campuses with a bus system. The good news is that both plant science and food science are on the same campus within the main campus. She may have to take a bus for other classes, depending.
I would not call it a safety. I would call it a low reach due to her rigor. Same with Ohio State- definitely not a safety and is also huge (too huge for your D?).
The area surrounding the main campus is very nice, at least the area that we saw.
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I second the recommendations for both Iowa State and Kansas State as good fits - smallish college towns with a friendly vibe, great school spirit, strong programs in the natural sciences relating to plants/animals, highly likely for admission. You might also think about Texas Tech for similar characteristics. The one downside to TTU might be the size of the physical campus; it’s all in one contiguous campus (unlike some schools with separate campuses requiring buses/shuttles between), but that one campus is very large and spread out. You’d probably want a bike to get across campus in a reasonable amount of time, which is doable since the land is pancake-flat.
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