Match my son - engineering or bio

Chance Me / Match Me!
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Your comment about getting distracted by large state schools is our experience. We have one at Georgia and one at Georgia Tech. At Georgia Tech, the comment I hear from most people is everybody studies. Most of social stuff is Thursday through Saturday. At Georgia, while it is considered selective for entry there are a lot of distractions and a lot of smart kids get a wake up call. Thankfully my Georgia kid has been able to balance academics and social life with ease, but he does a lot of work during the day in between classes so he doesnā€™t have to miss out on whatā€™s going on at night.

I would definitely add Purdue and Georgia to your list. Although UGA has a very new engineering school, itā€™s on the rise and their grads seem to do great because of the economic engine that is Atlanta. It gets a lot of kids who are super smart but prefer Georgia versus Georgia Tech for atmosphere due to free tuition for Ga residents - hard to go out of state if you are full pay. If your kid likes UVA and Michigan, he would love Georgia. My Georgia Tech kid has had three internships and has worked with Georgia engineers every time. Alabama should be added to the list for a couple of reasons. First of all, it takes five minutes to fill out the application and he will hear almost immediately. No essay and if itā€™s a contender the honors application is not due for months. Second of all, theyā€™re very transparent about money. Weā€™ve had three apply, three got in and all got the presidential scholarship which essentially covers tuition. This brings it in line with our in-state Georgia schools which have free tuition for similar students. Georgia Tech kid also worked alongside an Alabama kid for one of his internships.

Frankly, as long as it is ABET certified it is really not too relevant where you go as long as you do well. You were looking at this the same way we did. We were full pay and turned down both UVA and Michigan in favor of our state schools. My youngest, also wants to be an engineer, is not even applying to UVA (he is a legacy)as itā€™s over $80,000 a year for engineering.

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Not surprising at all that there would be no application to UVA as an OOS full pay person when you have great instate options in Georgia.

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True. I couldnā€™t convince my other two to go but as an alumni I was hoping the third time would be the charm :slight_smile: Not for engineering though!

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OK - weā€™re starting to put together a list, still pretty rough, but heā€™s going to start submitting applications for EA to increase his odds and increase merit awards (thank you all for that tip).

His rough list right now is:
UVA - EA, hard reach, but heā€™s a legacy, liked the campus and why not
Virginia Tech - ED, reach for engineering, target for everything else. Does anyone know if he doesnā€™t get into first choice engineering early decision, but is accepted to second choice (biology), does he need to withdraw from other schools? If so, he might go EA instead of ED
Alabama - going for the merit scholarships, they have an admission officer coming to his school in a couple of weeks also
Purdue - EA, they recruit from his school apparentlyā€¦ probably really good chance in his second choice, but probably a hard target/reach in engineering. Naviance shows lots of acceptances for students from his school with his stats and very few rejections
Michigan State - EA to maximize merit scholarships. They count grandparents as a legacy for scholarships, so he has that going for him. Seems like a decent chance he gets in there with some aid
ASU - EA, family in Phoenix and my sister-in-law works in ASUā€™s robotics labs and knows all the research professors and has been talking it up to my son.
WPI - EA, weā€™re cooling on this based on the likelihood that it will be out of the price range, but they recruited at his school and my son really liked the guy who talked to him about it
VCU - safety schoolā€¦ urban campus is not his favorite, but seems like a good mix of programs for him, decent medical school if he decides to focus on biology
Colorado School of Mines - this one is more for fun, because it has an outdoorsy campus, we donā€™t have a lot of smaller schools on the list, he LOVES the idea of doing asteroid mining (which is offered in their grad program and as a minor to MechE). Seems like it is a target for him, but might be out of price range

That seems like a pretty good list to start (and maybe finish). Iā€™d like to see if we can find another smaller pretty campus (someone mentioned his preference for UMich and UVA, and how that might mean he likes larger schools, but talking with him and it more the aesthetically pleasing campuses he liked ā€“ he prefers a pretty campus over an urban one).

Heā€™s thinking of applying to WVU and William and Mary as well ā€“ William and Mary b/c itā€™s a very good school with a good biology program and he has friends there. Heā€™ll probably also apply to Stanford for fun b/c you miss 100% of the shots you donā€™t take, and every high performing group needs the guy who is always calm, competent and keeps everyone from freaking out, which is going to be his selling point to schools (still not selling himself short on smarts, but emphasizing that he doesnā€™t have a fear of failure, is very rarely stressed out about things and is good at keeping his more anxious friends grounded and focused).

Appreciate all the help!

I do have one tangential question. When schools ask for that optional essay on are there any mitigating circumstances that might have affected things, does that really help? The reason I asked is last night we were going over his transcript, and his weighted GPA was around 4.0 his first two years and almost 4.4 last yearā€¦ and that happens to be the first year in 3 that we didnā€™t have any hospitalizations or other severe issues with his younger sibling with severe mental health issues. It seems kind of crappy to use your mentally ill sibling as an excuse, but looking back, Iā€™m not sure how it wouldnā€™t have effected himā€¦ we had repeated hospitalizations, breakdowns, etcā€¦ my wife and I were spending tons of time focusing on the sibling and not as much on the other two - so no help getting to internships, etcā€¦ he never asked for help either, but talking with him last night his reply was that we had bigger issues to deal with and he was fine. He also ended up spending a ton of time with his mom just helping her stay saneā€¦ instead of doing a million extra-curriculars.

Is that worth talking about? Heā€™s a bit reluctant to do so, and heā€™s not really sure he can quantify how it affected him.

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oh also forgot about adding Georgia. My mom went there and they live in Cumming, GA and would be thrilled if he went there.

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He should do the essays, and write about something he thinks will fit the prompt. I would take anything thatā€™s ā€œoptionalā€ and view it with a grain of salt. My gut, and I have no data to back this up, is that leaving out ā€œoptionalā€ things will hurt a candidate.

I think the list is great. The only thing Iā€™d add is that it would be nice to have a safety that does excite him. If heā€™s into interesting fringe engineering, MO S&T offers a minor in Explosives Engineering. They also have a graduate program in asteroid mining, but it usually isnā€™t accessed via ME, rather Civil or ChemE. Worth a shot though. A perfect safety is one thatā€™s in the hunt for the top choice.

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Are your sons extenuating/family circumstances something his guidance counselor would know about and mention in that letter?

My son is homeschooled, and so I have done extensive reading about the guidance counselor letter because I have to write it. One of the things I have read about the guidance counselor letter is that it can be used to discuss this type of mitigating circumstances, or extra challenges, the student might have had to overcome.

I donā€™t know for sure if that is a good idea, or if it is appropriate to ask the guidance counselor about it. This is our first go with applying to colleges! But we have a somewhat similar situation. My oldest sonā€˜s high school opportunities & support have been significantly affected by the challenges of his two younger disabled brothers. I suggested he might mention it somewhere in his application, but he absolutely refuses. He says thatā€™s just how life is and everybody has challenges. I think I will mention it in my guidance counselor letter for my son, but I am very interested to hear what advice other people give you in this topic.

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Hi, thanksā€¦ the guidance counselor does know about the situation b/c his sibling has the same guidance counselor and they know all about whatā€™s going on. But again, itā€™s super hard to quantify ā€“ everyone has issues, and we have done a pretty good job of making sure heā€™s insulated from the issue (he still was able to do travel soccer, and hang out with friends and so on), and to be honest, I didnā€™t even think about it until last night when we noticed the very big difference in his grades his Junior year (only 1 B and he had the most challenging courses to that point). But thereā€™s also a very real chance that heā€™d be the exact same any way, and the improvement in grades was just him getting used to school. So, if itā€™s not likely to be very useful, then I think itā€™s best to just leave off.

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Sorry to hear about your families challenges.

Rule of thumb is to have the student focus essays on what defines, motivates or inspires the student while GC can use letter to provide context, discuss challenges and highlight responses and resilience.

It is typically advised against using essays to explain a shortcoming versus highlighting positives.

I donā€™t think any of these ā€œrulesā€ would preclude a great essay involving what the student has experienced with a sibling facing mental health challenges but I would tread very lightly to ensure tone is appropriate and focus remains on the applicant.

Good luck once again.

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Based on your words and excitement of other places, I donā€™t think Iā€™d ED to Va Tech. Are you 100% sure thatā€™s his place - doesnā€™t sound like it. Youā€™d have to read the ED contract for the terms on the major or you can simply call admission and ask. They do offer this out though - on their website: If a student does not accept the offer of admission by January 15, the offer will be withdrawn.

But if you decided to consider others (UGA, Bama etc.), you would lose Va Tech permanently.

Just doesnā€™t seem ED would be the right choice hereā€¦based on what Iā€™m reading from you.

On his brother, did he write about it in his essay - the challenge, the love heā€™s shared, what heā€™s learned, the growth, etc.?

I would definitely not put this in the circumstances section - as youā€™ve kind of noted itā€™s not legit in the sense of lower grades from that POV, etcā€¦but itā€™s certainly a challenge. I think your son will end up where he should regardlessā€¦

Sounds like you have a good plan.

Thanks

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Thanks againā€¦ he isnā€™t writing about it in his main essays. But a couple of the applications have this space to basically just say, are there any circumstances that would have affected your performance. Itā€™s an optional section on some applications. Our initial inclination was to leave it alone, and it sounds like the consensus is to go with that instinct.

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I havenā€™t talked about Virginia Tech much on here b/c itā€™s basically been a given that heā€™d apply there. Itā€™s a very good engineering program in a pretty part of the state, has a traditional campus, and we get in state tuition, so itā€™s comfortably affordable. And if he decides engineering isnā€™t for him, itā€™s got other STEM options in biology that are good. Honestly, we had just assumed heā€™d go there, not realizing how competitive it has gotten (not just engineering, even other schools within Virginia Tech are harder to get into from our area).

There are downsides to it ā€“ pretty much the middle of nowhere, and itā€™s biomedical program is still pretty new.

So, itā€™s still his first semi-realistic choice. The only schools heā€™d feel bummed about missing out on if he had to commit to Virginia Tech would be University of Michigan or Stanford, and UMich he probably wonā€™t apply to now (since we need to start narrowing it down), and Stanford is just for the heck of it (also might not get around to applying if he runs out of time).

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Would he choose over Virginia ?

I love Tech. Do their info session. We did the other year (on line). They showed admission stats by decision time so you could see how many ED - not many.

It may not be necessary. Theyā€™ll give you #s. You can decide. Itā€™s not like applying ED to a high end private.

Tech is IMHO the nicest school in the country and with arguablythe highest rated food. Food is underrated. Many kids complain, donā€™t eat, get low blood sugar. Parents spend thousands more for kids to eat every meal out. So here that issue is avoided.

Good luck.

I donā€™t see downside. Personally. I want to go there :slight_smile:

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So the room can help you better please provide some more information:

  1. Is he planning to take the SAT again? It would help for engineering programs to get his math score up.
  2. Since his parents are college educated, where are they alumni?
  3. Does he know where he wants to land geographically after college? That might drive where he applies.

I second the earlier posts about applying to the most competitive major (in this case, engineering), because he can change to a less competitive major after admission, but it is hard to move to a more competitive program.

Ohio State gives good aid for competitive students, but UofM does not, especially to OOS applicants. Case Western gives good merit aid, but he might need to get his scores up to win a big award.

Some details regarding UofM, that might sway his decisionā€¦ they have a separate engineering campus, so students must grab a shuttle from the main campus to the north campus. The campus is integrated into AA, with academic buildings or quads separated by retail/office buildings. While highly ranked, the school has a reputation for focusing on the theoretical rather than the practical, and we know employers in SE MI who do not recruit there for that reason. Finally, DEI is strong in AA, and applying as a white male will not help his chances (this observation is based on who was accepted - and not accepted - into UofMā€™s engineering school from my sonā€™s high school in MI).

If he applies to MSU, have him look at the Lyman Briggs program for the sciences. Students there live in a separate dorm together, and many classes are taught in the dorm. They get priority for class registration (a real concern at a large public university if you want to graduate in four years), and there is a significant financial aid package. Unfortunately, the program does not include engineering majors. On this note, he should look at honors colleges at other schools to which he plans to apply, like Ohio State.

Has he considered Pitt? It is a respectable engineering school and they they are strong in biology, with a major research hospital on campus. It is a smaller state school (~20,000 students) located in a nice neighborhood. They also have programs where students can cross register at CMU, which is next door.

If he is interested in biomed, he should look at Case Western. They are a top 50 university and their BioMed program is #13. Like Pitt, they have ties to a major research hospital on campus. The school encourages students to explore before finalizing a major, and they facilitate and support students having double majors or minors. My son was accepted there as a MechE, but he might switch to biochem, or biomed. They also gave him a merit award equal to half his tuition.

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OMG - I had forgotten the food requirement, but youā€™re right, one of the reasons he had Virginia Tech so high was because he had heard about how great their food was, and he said that was important to him.

Would he choose Tech over UVA if he got into them both? Yes, to my chagrin he would. He likes their engineering program overall a lot better - he toured UVA and Tech on back to back days this summer, and he liked UVAā€™s campus and the town better, but he liked the program and the students he talked to more at Tech. But he would not be sad at all if he got into UVA and not Tech.

Although, you bring up a good point, if ED does not give any real advantage on applying over EA for Tech, then it would be better to just do EA. That due date isnā€™t until December, and they have a few supplemental essays that I think he should take his time to research and write.

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Thanks!

Hi APā€™s are:
Latin 4
APUSH 5
World Hist 5
Biology 5

currently taking Physics, Calc AB, Government

He did not take most rigorous course load at this school (AB instead of BC calc), and Physics1 instead of Physics C. He also decided to take Human Anatomy and Physiology instead of AP Chemistry (he took honors Chemistry sophomore year, and liked it but preferred to do more bio stuff his senior year).

I had seen Case Western come up in other searches, but assumed it would fall outside our budget.

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I do want to say thank to everyone helping out on this threadā€¦ in the past year I went from blissfully unaware, just assuming my son would get into one of the better Virginia schools and not having to worry about costs so much; to being a bit worried that he wouldnā€™t get into anywhere that weā€™d want and still be affordable, to now being pretty comfortable with where everything is ā€“ just realizing the number of merit scholarships available for out of state students for other stateā€™s large universities has been a revelation. That would have sucked to figure out in January when most of them are too late.

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Forgot to respond to the Pitt suggestion. Itā€™s on the list, but a bit lower down. We had visited Carnegie Mellon over the summer and he was not in love with their campus (although he really liked the school), and Pitt is right next to it, so I assume he might not like that campus - although to be fair we did not tour it.

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Google Niche + food and youā€™ll see the rank. You can go there and eat - and see. You see a lot of folks of certain top schools here complaining about the food. Both my kids did although one now realizes her dining hall is ok - it is, Iā€™ve eaten twice.

Us parents have to get past the - heā€™d choose X over Y. I suffer from that too. Truth is, on the Va Tech campus, there will be kids who chose it over MIchigan, UVA, and likely Stanford. Some Ivies for sure. Smart kids abound and Techs rep is super solid.

They have virtual sessions on line. If the info isnā€™t there, ask admissions- they were providing the other year (in the info session).

Iā€™m not saying thereā€™s no ED advantage - why you should call the school.

Iā€™m saying a few years ago there was little (overall - donā€™t know about engineering) but ask for the data so that you / your son can make the right decision. Itā€™s likely not a HUGE advantage but I can be wrong and maybe thatā€™s the difference between admission and notā€¦but maybe not.

Best to get the data and evaluate.

Hereā€™s a link i found on CC with data - not sure where itā€™s from or how accurate but Iā€™d assume it is.

PS - not sure you can compare Pitt and CMU - as similar - but thatā€™s just my opinion.

Virginia Tech Early Action / Early Decision for Fall 2022 Admission - Colleges and Universities A-Z / Virginia Tech - College Confidential Forums

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Pitt and CMU are next door but different in several ways. Youā€™d really have to visit. Your list seems full so Iā€™d skip Pitt plus cost would be about $50k/year.

Iā€™m counting about 13 schools on your list so youā€™re probably approaching your limit or maybe whittle a few off. Itā€™s time to get apps done.

I still think an app to W&M would be a smart play. Name another state with 3 top public schools? Not many. And itā€™s never a bad thing to have an in-state acceptance in your pocket.

WVU would almost become your 4th in-state option. Probably $20k and less than 4 hours from DC. Probably closer than Blacksburg.

The rest seem reasonable. Good luck.

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