Math experts - help

<p>CF: thanks for the clarification. We’re in agreement. Students need both.</p>

<p>Hey Cardinal, cut me some slack! In my original post, I mentioned that I never went as high as Alg II (back in the day, you could stop at geo. at my school) Anyway, all of your posts are giving me a lot of insight. Her study group was at our house last week. They had white boards out working on problem after problem. When one didn’t get it right, the others talked him through it. Then after 8 hours of that, she went online for more problems to work on. So, it could be like you and Marite said, she doesn’t truly understand the material enough to apply it.</p>

<p>And where is she now?, she’s in her math class studying w/teacher and other kids. The teacher is very accessible - D and friends stay after school at least 4 times a week from 3:00 - 6 and sometimes until 9 P.M. Until now, I haven’t objected to her spending time there because she actually likes it. She doesn’t complain about her class. Its really me. I think its so unusual to have to spend so much time on a particular class. I do have a good rapport with the administration and I want to address the block schedule and math issue but I don’t want to be a complainer who doesn’t have suggestions. </p>

<p>Cardinal and Marite, I’m starting to understand now what may be going wrong. Now, to address the “study time issue”. Perhaps the teacher isn’t presenting the material effectively and a private tutor may be in order. What should I consider when looking for a good tutor? I think at this point, it would be worth a try…</p>

<p>So she’s studying math with her teacher and her friends in the afternoons. And she likes it. And the problem is?</p>

<p>With this new information, now I think the teacher is fine and the students are learning a lot of math. This is a good thing.</p>

<p>My daughter had the same issue with Algebra II Honors, and she wasn’t on block scheduling. She’d do the homework and get most of it right, then get completely confused on the test. Algebra II Honors was the last Honors math class she took, she’s in college-prep level Pre-Calc now and doing fine. Alg II H was also the last Honors math class my son took, and way back in the day it was my last Honors math class as well. It has a reputation as being a tough class, I think it’s the class that separates the people who REALLY get math from the rest of us.</p>

<p>milan:</p>

<p>Your latest post seems to contradict your first one. What do you mean by doing poorly on tests?
It may be that she is spending all her time on math because she likes math, not because she is struggling.
However, if she is truly doing poorly on tests, what she needs is to have the materials presented in as many different ways as possible. The teacher may be willing to go through the list of problems and exercises and assign those that seem the most challenging; if not, is there a college student who could do the same thing? See where your D is having difficulties and go over the materials and explanations. Make sure that when she is answering the problems, she does not just provide the answer, but also the explanation of what she is doing and why.</p>

<p>I’ve always felt that study time and effort somehow correlate with test scores. So, D spending so much time studying = high grade? Learning about the math world has been an eye opener. I do appreciate her tenacity - its a great quality to have. She put in 24 hrs of studying to score a 78 on the test…but she’s okay with it. Not, the score but the work load. Who has a child like that? I’m amused to see my concerns in print - hoping I haven’t made something out of nothing. In any case, I’ve learned more about Alg. II!</p>

<p>Do you know how the teacher grades? If 78 is a C+, then she is not getting a good return for her efforts. Either she is not studying the right way (memorizing when she should strive to understand, for example) or the teacher is not explaining well enough, or assigning the wrong kind of problems/exercises for the class to do on homework, then using totally different types of problems on the tests. The teacher may think that more of the same kinds of exercises will make the students realize the underlining logic on their own, but not everyone gets it that way.</p>

<p>Getting a tutor for a few hours might be a very good investment.</p>

<p>There are 2 main ways schools do a block plan. Some have kids take 4 classes for one semester, then 4 more the next. The fire-hose method… Others do an alternate block plan where they take 4 classes on A days and 4 others on B days all year long. Some of the answers you got may reflect confusion about your D’s schedule. </p>

<p>A big part of the problem is the semester block schedule (they are taking math out of a firehose) Math is probably the worst class to do that way. OTOH, she is learning how to learn, her teacher is great. This may turn out to be more important in the long run than her grade.</p>

<p>OP- It sounds like your daughter is investing plenty of time in the course. It may be more efficient for her to read and work a chapter ahead so current lectures make more sense.</p>

<p>BTW, what book is she using?</p>

<p>Dragonmom, I couldn’t agree more about D learning how to learn. That’s the way engineers and researchers and scientists, etc, do it. For every success, there are a quite a few failures. I don’t consider D’s efforts a failure. There’s just got to be a way to make her study time less and more efficient. Her teacher is young and energetic - and they respect him. </p>

<p>Marite, thanks for your input. As a result, if and when I speak to her teacher, I will be able to ask more informed questions.</p>

<p>my$0.02 - she’s using Advanced Algebra - An Investigative Approach. I don’t know the publisher.</p>

<p>[Discovering</a> Advanced Algebra: Contents of Student Text - Key Curriculum Press](<a href=“The Geometer's Sketchpad”>The Geometer's Sketchpad)</p>

<p>OK, I think I see the situation. If she is indeed expected to do one chapter of that book a week, that’s ridiculously fast. Everything about exponents, powers and logs-- in one week! Yeah, sure.</p>

<p>That seems crazy!</p>

<p>Dragonmom - thank you for explaining about two different block schedules. I was getting very confused.
Still, I think that 24 hours/week spend on studying regular school math is way, way too much! Students staying in school from 3 till 9 in the evening just to study "regular " school math as opposed to extracurricular problem solving - something is wrong here.
How does this girl cope with the rest of her homework? Where does she find time to do other things than math? Why such a big problem a month away from the end of the school year?</p>

<p>DS is about to start a block scheduling next year. It will be days A and days B, which he is actually looking forward to.</p>

<p>Our school is also on semester long block scheduling (2 periods/class each day) for everything except math. Every time the administration proposes blocking math the parents, students, and math teachers respond with a resounding NO. In addition to it being a rush to get through, it also would create a situation where some students would take math in the fall semester and then not again until spring of the next school year. No continuity at all, especially if they didn’t have a firm grasp on the concepts. Since your D is only a freshman, it would be worth taking student and parent concerns to the BoE.</p>

<p>My kid has taken blocked math (course in one semester) throughout HS. In 12th grade she’s taking honors PreCalc, which they spread out to include a semester block during first semester (which should have been enough time for the whole course) plus a 1/2 block period 2nd semester. Apparently they found out that the kids couldn’t get precalc in one block. They’ve assigned all AP classes to a full year, 1/2 block period. Other classes stay as blocks.</p>

<p>I wonder what others think - compared to what I took in HS and college, these kids are doing tons of factoring and, it seems to me, less variety in math content. For example, they hardly touched on matrix multiplication whereas we did plenty of it. It just seems like a more mechanical class today.</p>

<p>I am not expert but speak from experience with myself and my kids. Probably both teacher and student stress too much on the course contents and homeworks and don’t have time to master the concepts in key chapters. I think not every section in the book should be taught.
I think data analysis, statistics, conic sections can be dropped or shortened.</p>

<p>What the OP describes - tons of effort for a 78% - makes me think that either her kid just isn’t strong in higher math, or the teacher is teaching a college level math course, with difficult exams and college-style grading. I don’t think it would be out of line to ask how many As the teacher has given. If it’s 10% of the class, that’s the sort of curve I experienced in engineering school.</p>

<p>It sounds like college courses to me where you can get that class that you have to spend 20+ hours a week on. My son had one of these, the first semester course was over 80 labs. The second was over 100 labs. Consider that in the context of 14 weeks of class when a few of the labs take 30 hours.</p>

<p>Get her good tutor ASAP or she will fall more and more behind and not only in math, algebra is extremely important in Chem., Physics.</p>

<p>The general consensus is get her a tutor. I agree. If her study time can be cut in half, she may have a normal life. Now, what do I look for in a tutor? What kinds of questions should I ask? I know so little about higher math that I need your input!</p>

<p>Cardinal Fang, yes, the book is tough. They just finished Ch 8 - conics. And I must add that this class started in Feb. and will run through mid-June. Insane, isn’t it? So, technically, while the schools on regular schedule are feeling that they’re reaching the end of their year, this class has just passed the mid point of theirs.</p>

<p>I am thankful for your replies - I will remember to ask the teacher about the mastery of techniques and application of the concepts (thank you for the terms!) I’d like to know his feelings on block scheduling - maybe he feels the same way I and other parents do. I also want to approach the administration with this info. I truly feel that a part of the problem is that the schedule and the curriculum don’t mesh.</p>