Mom needs reality check for gr.9 child

Parent Cafe
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<p>OK - needing to chat with saner minds, who haven't been arguing with a teenager in the past hour - any out there?</p>

<p>S is in gr 9 in pre-IB all honors classes, including H Alg. II. This is a kid who has always had 4.0 without a ton of excruciating effort. Natural procrastinator. Super bright by IQ type measurements BUT disorganized and has trouble with visual-spatial and sequencing. Personality is that he wants to be good at whatever he's doing immediately - he has to work hard to have enough perseverance to get through tough assignments.
This year he has had to actually work and its been very good for him. He had a 4.0 first semester, but is struggling second semester.What I see happening is that he is beginning to connect the dots between his choices/actions and his grades.(a good thing!)
Second semester he currently has 1 "D" 2 "B" and 3 "A". With six weeks left he thinks these will all become "A" except Honors Alg II - which is stuck at a D - he is struggling. He works hard, has a math tutor once per week, and the material is just not clear to him. Yesterday, after studying two hours with his tutor and feeling prepared, he was heartbroken to tell me he left three test questions blank because he just didn't know how to approach setting up the problem. Probably an F on yesterday's test. He is used to being at the top of the food chain and is embarassed. He doesn't want to talk to his teacher until Monday after he has a session with his tutor over the weekend. I want him talk to his teacher today.
He is starting to panic about the rest of HS - staring down an IB load (our school doesn't offer AP) doesn't feel good to him. At this level of math as a freshman, there's really no place to get off the train.
As I watch him work, my thought is he would do much better in a standard AP program. IB is so in-depth and analytical plus extremely writing based. He would do well in the AP where you learn info - repeat it back - move on.
Is it worth changing schools to an AP program?
Now, we are arguing about when to talk to the teacher and how much parental involvement there will be. He is in a panic because if the grade doesn't come up we have said we won't allow him to continue in school leadership (which he loves).
Maybe I don't really have a question----- somebody just tell me that the fact he knows he's unconditionally loved might help in some way, and how do you weigh allegiance and bonding with your school (friends, sports, leadership, newspaper, etc) with the idea of switching to the school down the road because their academic program seems to be a better fit?</p>

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<p>Hey, what are you doing with my son?!?!?! </p>

<p>(No advice from me; was just struck that there’s another of my kid out there!)</p>

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<p>First semester A becomes a D in the second semester. Hmmm… You mention that your son “has trouble with visual-spatial”. Is your Algebra 2 course actually combined Algebra 2/Geometry-Trig? My D had problems in her first semester in a similar course (mostly due to lack of concept knowledge because of poor school guidance), but in the second semester her grades improved. She said she liked geometry/trigonometry part of the course much better because she could visualize things unlike in the algebra part which was taught in the first semester.</p>

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<p>Algebra 2 for a ninth grader is pretty advanced compared to most of the country. It sounds like he’s trying and it just isn’t cutting it. I wouldn’t worry about it. I think he needs to repeat the course either next year or in summer school. Once you get behind in math, it’s hard to play catch up especially since the class isn’t waiting for you.</p>

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<p>On this choice, why is your way better than his?</p>

<p>I can’t tell you what to do about math, because 2 of my 3 kids fell apart with Math and one turned out to have a Learning Disability not diagnosed until sophomore year of college, but rocked in other subject areas. You might inquire more about the visual/spatial deficit as a subtask of the IQ test. Does the school have an educational psychologicalist who knows about testing and can talk with you, without bringing your child into it immediately? I wonder if
the course adjustment can be made only in Math, if an LD is established. What a shame to change schools over one subject.</p>

<p>A summer school repeat might be a good idea. Also see if the tutor communicates with the teacher or not. If not, pay the tutor to go to a meeting with the teacher, so they can share insights and perhaps coordinate an approach for the summer or rest of this year. Sit in on the meeting if you think that’s advisable. These are things I wished I had done. I find math discouraging so I feel badly for you. BTW, for down the road: My 2 kids applied to good colleges as very “gappy” students and their extraordinary skills and grades in other subjects carried the day. One was more all-around, but that’s not every student.</p>

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<p>^^Some high schools start with Algebra II for the honors track and some high schools start with Geometry.</p>

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<p>Is it possible for him to drop down to regular math next year? That’s what my d did. She did well in honors math in 9th grade, but knew that she wouldn’t be able to keep it up with additional honors classes in her courseload. </p>

<p>What is available to him in his present school if he does not do IB? What’s the level of teaching in non-IB courses?</p>

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<p>A mom of another boy like that here, albeit a little younger ;)</p>

<p>I like what mathmom said - let him grow into this program. Especially since he had no problems with math before.
I will be following this thread as my S is also thinking about an IB school and at this time is also at the “top of the food chain”. </p>

<p>I just re-read your post and it tells me that you are liking the fact the he is connecting the dots and is struggling a bit. I think that letting him change schools just because he is having problems with one subject this semester will send a wrong message.</p>

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<p>mathmom - I guess that’s the crux of my mom question — How hard to be on him? Because there are really two issues that I see pretty clearly:</p>

<h1>1 - He truly is trying and is not connecting with this material. I agree re-take is a good idea. We have to find out how that works. As you might guess, he is not wild about the idea.</h1>

<h1>2 - While he might still be struggling if he were doing it - What he ISN"T doing is talking to his teacher and doing each assignment DAILY - not waiting and doing all three at the end of the week. He absolutely hates to ask questions or talk to teachers - has always been this way. SO part of me feels empathy for him and want to affirm his effort and help him deal with setting up whatever comes next, and ANOTHER part of me feels like I need to make him miserable (ie talk to teacher with him, take away privileges) until he will try / review assignments daily and talk to his teacher.</h1>

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<p>^^he is definitely learning how to be an adult and also struggling a little with this. I am having similar problems this week with my son - we are going on vacation in 2 weeks and S needs to communicate with teachers re: assignments he needs to do before we leave, so his final grade will be there in two weeks - I offered to help but he says he will do it himself - so far he spoke to no teacher at all.
Your S needs to submit his daily assignments if he is being graded on them! That is a no brainer. I he is not doing that he is 100% responsible for his bad grade!</p>

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<p>“What he ISN"T doing is talking to his teacher and doing each assignment DAILY - not waiting and doing all three at the end of the week. He absolutely hates to ask questions or talk to teachers - has always been this way. SO part of me feels empathy for him and want to affirm his”</p>

<p>I’m probably going to get slammed here, but this is my opinion. You should talk to the teacher. He is a ninth grader, not a senior and not an adult. Different kids need different types and levels of parenting and you can see that he needs this, so why would you even consider not doing it for him? There is time for him to learn how to deal with teachers as he progresses and in an issue not so important. Step in here and parent him, please. Make whatever decision YOU think is appropriate, don’t leave it on this child.</p>

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<p>^^agreeing, not slamming. For him to grow in emotional and age maturity to begin handing in those assignments properly, he might advance in some place where he’s comfortable and EVENTUALLY it’ll transfer over to math. But meanwhile, there’s the math situation right in front of you.</p>

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<p>If his school work has been easy till now, this </p>

<p>[Amazon.com:</a> Mindset: The New Psychology of Success: Carol Dweck: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Success-Carol-Dweck/dp/0345472322/]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Success-Carol-Dweck/dp/0345472322/) </p>

<p>could be helpful. See </p>

<p>[STANFORD</a> Magazine: March/April 2007 > Features > Mind-set Research](<a href=“http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2007/marapr/features/dweck.html]STANFORD”>http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2007/marapr/features/dweck.html) </p>

<p>for a quick overview of the research.</p>

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<p>I agree with Zoosermom. When a kid is so adament about the mom having no contact with the teacher, that always raises my sensor to the possibility that there is something he doesn’t want the teacher to tell the mom about his behavior in class. </p>

<p>I told my two kids that as long as they were earning B’s or higher in their classes, that I’d leave communication with the teachers up to them, but once a grade on a report card dropped to a C or D, it was my responsibility to talk to the teacher. I did, however, try to arrange a meeting WITH the teacher and my kids both present, so that we could all be on the same page and things didn’t descend into a “he said, she said” thing. I would particularly want my son to be present if I were discussing whether he should go into a lower level math class next year. By the way, like Chevda’s daughter, my daughter dropped to the regular math track after 10th grade. It was a very good choice in her case. You don’t HAVE to be in honors, AP, and IB classes for everything in order to get into a good college and be successful in life. :)</p>

<p>I don’t think this is about being a helicopter parent. A helicopter parent insists on talking to teachers about EVERY grade, including A’s. :)</p>

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<p>I second ZM. In this situation, a phone call from the parent is totally warranted.
(Columbia Student, if this is a standard pre-IB Algebra 2, then the course covers both algebra and trig. at a very fast pace to create the foundation for the IB math sequence).</p>

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<p>Kelowna -Doing the assignment at the end of the week doesn’t affect his grade - that part is fine. His assignments are all turned in on time. It’s just that if he worked on them daily, he could then ask his teacher questions and have ongoing dialogue in “real time”.
Zoosermom - the reason I would consider not talking to the teacher right now (I have talked to the teacher earlier) is because S is very embarrassed today and wants a chance to talk to him himself. Weighing the value of gaining a little bit more cooperation / less hostility from S - so we can be a team together - against the time factor and the giving S the chance to show his teacher he cares.
I’m an educator too, and one of the things I’m trying to get my S to understand is the value of creating relationship with his teacher. If he doesn’t talk in class, doesn’t come to the teacher with questions, and fails the test - how would the teacher know he cares? I’m wanting S to understand the value of letting the teacher know that he studied hard, worked with his tutor, felt prepared, and just didn’t know how to set things up on the exam. Then they can work together and the teacher isn’t just wondering if the kid has checked out of the class. There’s alot more value in the student telling that to the teacher than the parent telling them, in my experience. I appreciate your response - all of these are helping me think through my own reasoning. Absolutely it’s a given I’ll be talking to the teacher, the question is when and with S or without him…</p>

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<p>orjr–similar situation w/my son (lack of work in 9th gr, not lack of understanding…but otherwise many, many similarities).</p>

<p>If I had to do it over —
“somebody just tell me that the fact he knows he’s unconditionally loved might help in some way”</p>

<p>----the above would be the number one thing I would focus on much, much more than I did. Rather than getting on his case so much about ‘being so smart but not putting in effort,’ etc. That helped put him in a downward spiral (refusal to do hardly ANY work, later). </p>

<p>9th grade is a big adjustment year (maybe even especially for kids who’ve been no-effort, high-fliers all through school, prior).</p>

<p>I can say in my experience that threats/punishment/lectures about ‘your future’/meetings w/teachers did little. </p>

<p>I’d suggest focusing on something fun the two of you (or whole family) can do together to make sure you are bonding and enjoying life beyond the school frustrations (maybe already doing this, but always a good thing).</p>

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<p>orjr</p>

<p>boy does this boy sound familiar! the panic is starting to set in with my 9th grader as well. some suggestions that we have found helpful, though we’ll only know HOW helpful three years from now!</p>

<p>dont take away the student gov’t thing. he’ll need something that he can proud of at school that isn’t school. if all he has to worry about are his grades, without that something else, they’ll likely get worse, not better. in our case the non-academic love was music, which he has both in and out of school. we decdided to let him have it regardless and i think we’ve made the right decision. </p>

<p>when our s was having trouble with math we told him to work something out with the math teacher – or we would do it for him. he didn’t believe us and found himself one afternoon in a room with both parents, the math teacher and the english teacher and prinicplal to boot! these discussions must get done. if he can do them on his own, fine. if not, don’t be afraid to step in. he will learn that proactive is not just an acne treatment.</p>

<p>has he been tested for learning disabilities? if not, he should. LDs are always a possibility when one academic subject seem so out of synch with the rest. we are in the middle of this process now for S, whose math is far below the rest of his capabilities–except for geometry and logic, which he sails through. but anything with computation? he’s like a deer caught in headlights. </p>

<p>can you do only part IB? this is not an option at S’s school, which doesn’t offer that. but the chance to mix and match courses by ability level and style should be optimized, the idea being to get the best match of the student’s talents and available courses. it may not be possible to earn a full IB diploma doing this. on the other hand your kid won’t be miserable and unhappy. contentment and self-esteem go a good way toward improving academic performance. </p>

<p>how much of it is just 14 /15 yr old panic? this isn’t the steadiest most mature age for boys, after all. its sometimes hard to get ahandle on how much the hormones are throwing him off balance. </p>

<p>finallly, i really do share yr pain and wish your kid the best. its a bi**h to have a smart kid who can’t quite find his way. painful because he knows that he should be doing better but can’t quite figure out why. as to switching schools, consider how resilient he is. if he makes friends easily, can find new interests, stay in touch with his old buddies, then go for it if you can’t figure out a solution where he is. but if he does not take change easily, thenyou have a hard choice to make. we too are considering a school switch, but no decision yet. </p>

<p>he sounds so much like my kid. again, i wish you all the best and hope it turns out well.</p>

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<p>Math is one of those things where it helps if you can sleep on it - literally giving your brain a chance to integrate concepts. Starting the assignments as soon as they are given would help with that. If you can provide a bit of structure to expedite this, I think it would be helpful in the long run.</p>

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<p>It is a standard pre-IB honors algebra. There is no other math class offered at the school above this one that isn’t IB except “Intro to Statistics” (not AP). The “regular math track” ends at Algebra II. So the choices are IB Math Studies and IB SL I - math studies being easier, then SL I in gr. 11 and SL II (same text as AP Calc) in gr. 12. I think this track, still, is a bit steep for this particluar kiddo.</p>