Math jobs that actually use "advanced" math?

College Majors Math/Computer Science Majors
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<p>So this is something I've always been kind of curious about.</p>

<p>I've always been under the impression that if you want to do advanced mathematics (anything above Calculus), you had to do grad school.</p>

<p>That still strikes me as odd. I mean I can understand real analysis or abstract algebra not being an employable skill at the undergrad level, but what about stuff like linear algebra (even basic intro linear algebra)? I felt like the whole purpose of that class is to be practical. Is my class in numerical analysis or linear algebra worth anything? </p>

<p>I just feel like we're raised in the major (I am a CS and math major) to think good math skills are important, when they really aren't employable at all. And I'm not talking about "being a math major means your able to think critically." I mean actually using the skills we've been taught. </p>

<p>So are there any jobs out hiring people to do higher level math at the undergrad level? There can be other prereqs such as programming experience, but I feel like these jobs don't exist ...</p>

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<p>Math majors are actually quite employable in a wide variety of fields. Just looking the Mathematical Association of America can give you an idea: [Careers</a> | Mathematical Association of America](<a href=“http://www.maa.org/careers]Careers”>Careers in Math Home | MAA Math Career Resource Center).
Exactly what type of math you would use depends on the type of field you go into, but jobs definitely exist. Have you talked to professors, alumni, or your university’s career office? They would probably be able to give you some useful pointers as to what is out there.</p>

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<p>But a lot of those jobs I hear either 1) don’t use much upper level math or 2) require a grad degree.</p>

<p>From my research or experiences:</p>

<p>1) Teaching: Require an advanced degree. As a high school teacher, the highest math you could possibly teach is calculus.</p>

<p>2) Actuarial Science: I hear the first exam is a little math intensive: probability and a little statistics, but I hear it pretty much drops after that. I’ve talked to some actuaries and they say the math they do never goes above high school algebra.</p>

<p>3) Computer Science: Really doesn’t use that math. Even the source you posted says “with their training in logical and precise thinking.” So it isn’t the actual math that makes them attractive.</p>

<p>4) Operations Research: Unsure, but I always thought this required a masters in operations research.</p>

<p>5) Biomathematcs: Advanced degree I’m pretty sure.</p>

<p>5) Cryptanalysis: Unsure. But the market for this seems to be limited to NSA.</p>

<p>6) Finance. Have not investigated yet.</p>

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<p>What are you defining as “upper level math”?</p>

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<p>I was counting anything above Calculus, but I guess Calculus could count too.</p>

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<p>The issue here might be in defining what you consider to be “upper level math”.</p>

<p>For instance, computer science and software engineering rely heavily on what is called Discrete Mathematics, which includes things like graph theory, formal language theory, automata theory, counting, various systems of mathematical logic, etc. This is all “advanced” compared to the math that non-initiates are exposed to; some of it didn’t even exist before a hundred years ago, and is therefore “above” Calculus.</p>

<p>Consider instead what some EEs and CompEs do in the broad area of Information Science. Data compression and cryptography are both practical applications of advanced mathematics. This is new stuff that people get jobs doing.</p>

<p>Economics uses game theory, a quite recent area of mathematics. These are just a few examples that come to mind.</p>

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<p>I understand that computer science uses more discrete mathematics than calculus, and I do count discrete mathematics (recurrence relations, combinatorics, etc.) above calculus. </p>

<p>However, while there are computer science courses that involve these subjects, I haven’t found many careers that NEEDED these for the job. If anything, the most use they have is the brain-teaser interview questions. I’ve interned as a software engineer before and NO ONE has ever needed to know combinatorics or graph theory. And I feel like the amount of jobs hiring undergrads in automata theory is the same amount hiring people who can do undergrad real analysis. </p>

<p>Software paradigms and computer “know-how” is far more important. Now I can’t speak for software engineering positions everywhere having only two internships, but that was the impression I got both times I worked.</p>

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<p>Some subareas of computer science make use of advanced math. An example would be algebra and number theory for cryptography. General knowledge of CS theory can help a software developer avoid designing an algorithm that consumes too much time or space.</p>

<p>But it is sometimes the case that “logical and precise thinking” may be the actual value for many jobs, rather than the specific topics from math courses. The math courses/major (or other math-heavy courses/majors) may be just an indication that the student has sufficient “logical and precise thinking” ability.</p>

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<p>@ucbalumnus </p>

<p>I understand that completely. But an engineer takes thermodynamics, vibrations, etc., not to prove they are smart, but to actually USE it in the field. I was wondering if there were any similar things for math.</p>

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<p>Computer science and engineering is all that I can really think of.</p>

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<p>By “higher level of math” you mean pure or non-applied math? Why do we need to learn pure maths when it would not necessary be useful to us in any way outside school?</p>

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<p>en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_mathematics</p>

<p>If you are questioning the usefullness of studying math you clearly don’t deserve to be studying math. It should be studied for its own sake. Studying “maths at a higher level” is doing what you love while at the same time being qualified for a range of possible jobs. People who study math study it for its own sake, pure math rarely has a practical usage. If there were no job opportunities for math graduates no one would study math, and that would be disheartening. Financial jobs that require math skills are mostly for linear programing which is not of degree level standard. But yet it required graduates because it clearly shows that you could apply math for any situation, and that you are the best for it. </p>

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<p>I see this sentiment a lot - that software engineering doesn’t actually use anything from discrete math. Despite the many well-intentioned people who try to convince me otherwise, it remains my firm opinion that writing computer programs is inherently an exercise in the very sort of discrete mathematics you’ve already admitted is “higher” than Calculus. Following is the short, short version of my arguments in favor of this (apparently unorthodox) position.</p>

<p>Mathematics and Computer Science are essentially the same thing. Both rely on axioms and systems of logic to produce theorems. Software engineering is an application of Computer Science in the same way that Electrical Engineering is an application of Physics.</p>

<p>The process of doing Mathematics is fundamentally similar to the process of doing Programming. Mathematics assumes truths (axioms), imposes a system to reason about truths (logic), and develops new contingent truths (theorems) based on these. Programming assumes truths (a machine), imposes a system to reason about truths (programming languages), and develops new contingent truths (programs) based on these.</p>

<p>A computer program is a word in a formal language. Writing a valid (it compiles) program in this formal language requires some understanding of programming language syntax, an area of discrete mathematics.</p>

<p>A valid computer program can be executed by some machine. Writing a correct (it works) program for this machine requires some understanding of programming language semantics, an area of discrete mathematics.</p>

<p>Most computer programs contain some conditional execution. Conditional execution requires the definition of conditions, and requires some understanding of (Boolean, etc.) logic, an area of discrete mathematics.</p>

<p>Many computer programs contain some repetition. Repetition requires recursion or iteration, and requires some understanding of enumerating sets (recursive functions, induction, etc.), a topic usually considered part of discrete mathematics.</p>

<p>When you write a program, do you have any reason to think that it will work? If so, why? Likely, it’s because you wrote the program in such a way that it’s easy for you to understand why it works, i.e., you have sketched a proof in your head. Proving things (the act of proving itself, not necessarily the things) is part of discrete mathematics.</p>

<p>Do you ever write regular expressions? Do you ever read and process file or user input data? Processing strings is an application of formal language and/or automata theory.</p>

<p>I mean, the list goes on. Here are some pitfalls I think people fall into that give them the impression I’m hoping to dispel in you:</p>

<p>(1) That something is trivial does not necessarily imply that it’s not the proper subject matter of some discipline. For example, using long-division to prove that 99/3 = 33 is an exercise in applied number theory… albeit a very easy one.</p>

<p>(2) Things are not always exactly what they appear to be. Given distance and time, and knowing that velocity is distance over time, computing the velocity is a problem of mathematics, not of physics. If you didn’t know the relationship between the three variables, that would be a problem of physics.</p>

<p>(3) You don’t necessarily have to be conscious that you’re doing something, or necessarily even trained in something, to be able to do it. The first people to do it certainly didn’t know how. Nobody knew about relativity before Einstein published it… but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t physics.</p>

<p>These sorts of arguments don’t typically work, so don’t be too distressed if you’re not entirely convinced.</p>

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<p>With the “big data” emergence, it is very possible now to use advanced mathematics…well, at least advanced statistics in your development job. Now I am not an expert…I am still in the transition from being a long-time Data Architect/Developer/DBA to big data, but you will make use of the various statistical distributions to analyze data and create analytics.</p>

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<p>I’m not trying to turn this into a “Is Math a useless major?” or “Why does Computer Science need Math?” thread. I have seen enough of those. This is suppose to be a “I really like math thread. What jobs can I do that involve math?” </p>

<p>I’m not saying the previous suggestions don’t involve math to some level, but I’m being greedy and want to do more with it.</p>

<p>EDIT:
@CredonsInMonDeo
I like Math. I know who Hardy is and what his opinion on Math is (and just because he was venomously against applications doesn’t mean I have to be). But if you really like something, isn’t natural to try and see if you can make a job out of it?</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>So you mean why are there no jobs that allow you to use the hardcore math that you have learnt. You enjoy math and you feel sad to leave those math behind. You want a job that allow you to continue to deal with the math that you enjoy. And you feel that there’s no job that offers you to use those math knowledge and skill.</p>

<p>IMO it’s like a sport. Once you retire you can’t come back. There are jobs that require only low level skills from math graduates like linear programming in finance. With the exception of theoretical physics and further math for any other field say goodbye to math like you know it Lol.</p>