<p>I'm majoring in Math.
I have a lousy freshman GPA (sub 3.0), no excuses, I partied like a champion. :p
I'm doing better now but my overall GPA will probably only be around a 3.1-3.4 by graduation. My Math GPA should be higher than that but not a 4.0..
I'm a strong standardized test taker and think I have a good shot at doing really well on the GRE and the subject test (once I take all the prerequisite courses).
I plan to apply for a research program this summer or next summer.
If I get in a research program (and even have something published in a journal), show an upward trend in GPA, and ace the standardized tests- could I get in anywhere good for a Math PHD?
Or should I just give up?
Would they think that even if I have the aptitude that I won't have the drive to succeed in getting a PHD?
Standardized tests are all 'fill-in-the-bubbles' and there's a big difference between an 8 week research program and a 5 year PHD program!</p>
<p>The upward trend will help you and many programs will focus primarily upon your math GPA and last 2 yrs'; however, the fact that you have a sub-3.0 GPA that could only be brought up to a 3.1-3.4 probably will hurt you. If you're consistent from here on out, you'll probably be okay for mid-tier schools, but I'm really not sure how competitive math Ph.D. programs are. Remember that it's your classmates you're competing with. Do you perceive that you are in the top 5-10%? If not, the fact is you may not be Ph.D. material.</p>
<p>I have heard that the very top theoretical math programs (like, the top ~10) are sticklers about grades. So if that is what you want, you may have trouble. However, coming out of a school of Duke's reputation, I suspect that if you have research experience, good recommendations, and a good SOP (and don't bomb the GRE), you can get in somewhere solid. And if you're going to screw up, your freshman year is the time to do it, from the perspective of how it looks to grad programs. :p</p>
<p>
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Do you perceive that you are in the top 5-10%? If not, the fact is you may not be Ph.D. material.
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</p>
<p>Keep in mind that different schools are different (also, that tautologies are tautological; nevertheless, a surprising number of people seem to miss this particular tautology). The OP is coming out of a top-10 university that is at least, I would say, a top-25 math program. His/her classmates are likely to be an unusually talented bunch. Some of my MIT friends who were nowhere <em>near</em> the top 5-10% of their classes went on to be successful PhD students at good programs in their fields.</p>
<p>"The upward trend will help you and many programs will focus primarily upon your math GPA and last 2 yrs'; however, the fact that you have a sub-3.0 GPA that could only be brought up to a 3.1-3.4 probably will hurt you. If you're consistent from here on out,"</p>
<p>Honestly, from what I hear it's up to you to make it better right now. If, for instance, you get straight A's from now on out, I think schools will stop focusing on your frosh. year -- because heck, your frosh. classes are the LEAST ADVANCED MATH you're dealing with.</p>
<p>Yes, Ph.D. programs are sticklers for grades, but don't give up! You could be really brilliant. I know for a fact that it's the "best stuff you get to" that matters in many cases; for instance, I do know someone who was a CS major for 2 years, switched, did amazing, insane things in his next 2 years, and was accepted to Princeton.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Keep in mind that different schools are different (also, that tautologies are tautological; nevertheless, a surprising number of people seem to miss this particular tautology). The OP is coming out of a top-10 university that is at least, I would say, a top-25 math program. His/her classmates are likely to be an unusually talented bunch. Some of my MIT friends who were nowhere <em>near</em> the top 5-10% of their classes went on to be successful PhD students at good programs in their fields.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree. By top 5-10% I am speaking across the board, regardless of the school. Obviously, a top 25 UG math program is likely to have a skewed population, but since Ph.D. programs generally take only a few students (varies by field, but in mine it's usually around 6-8...12 if it's a very large program...less if it's a small dept) and likely only the top 25% of students apply to grad school from any given program, being outside the top 10% of students in your field nationally (when all factors are taken into account) is probably going to make your chances at Ph.D. admissions fairly low. I'm not saying your GPA needs to be the 90th percentile or better, but simply that if you're in the 60th percentile across the board, you may want to reconsider your post-college career choices.</p>
<p>
Duke doesn't have that many math majors..
However, I think about 35% of each class goes on to get a PHD while the other 65% does other things, on average. So maybe that's what I should shoot for. </p>
<p>
Yes, :D!! This is good to know! </p>
<p>Overall, it seems like that I could still get into a decent PHD program if I do some research during my undergrad and ace the GRE.
I doubt I'd get Princeton or MIT but I'd be willing to go to a SUNY like Stonybrook.</p>
<p>I screwed up in my college freshman year too, but I made up for it in my junior-senior yr and I really don't think it hurt my chances at all. I think you are allowed to be human and screw up for one year in your life (after all, the first yrs in college is very exciting, and it's just human nature to experience freedom and experiment before you transform into a fully mature adult). In fact, most schools ask you categorize your GPA into different sections: lower class, upper class, major, non major, etc.. so if you ace the "important" major classes, then they will see that.</p>
<p>As a reference, I got some B's, C's and even an F during my freshman yr. But all my upper class major classes were B+, A-, A and A+s. My GRE score was good. I applied to 5 graduate schools (ranked 1 through 5 in those popular grad school ranking magazines) and got into all of them. :)</p>
<p>I've just sent in several apps to math PhD programs, and they all seem interested in recent grades. Some ask about the "last two years", some want to know about upper division courses, or everything past Calculus, LinAlg, and DiffEQ. But one way or another, they're saying they don't care if I partied too hard freshman year...they want to know how I do with real math.</p>
<p>So don't sweat it, but do change your habits, and you'll be fine.</p>
<p>"they don't care if I partied too hard freshman year...they want to know how I do with real math."</p>
<p>This was the point of my post as well. Seems to be plenty of evidence that most important is to show you can really handle advanced mathematics. If you got an F in multivariable calculus, and then aced all the upper math classes, I think someone's going to suspect you had weird factors affect you in the MV-calc course anyway =]</p>
<p>I also partied my first year, even to the point of being placed on suspension for one semester. However, I stuck with it, graduate with an overall GPA of around 3.1 while math GPA around 3.7. Then, I went to a middle of the road MSc. program and showed some potential. Do to this I was able to get into a very respectable PhD program. So, not saying everything that happened to me will happen to you, but don’t give up, just concentrate on your courses now and perhaps go the MSc. to PhD route rather than directly to PhD.</p>
<p>As most have pointed out, one screwed up semester won’t be a problem as long as you right yourself fairly quickly. The first year of college is a killer for many because of the sudden freedom – too much partying, no time management skills, and, in many cases, inadequate preparation. It happens all the time. It may take another semester to fully change your habits and readjust your priorities, so expect better grades but not perfect ones. Don’t give up.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, at this stage, you will be hurt by your grades when it comes to summer research programs. The formal programs tend to be quite competitive; transcripts and letters of recommendation are required. Your best bet may be to impress a professor at your current institution enough this semester to do some work for him/her over the summer or during the semester starting next fall.</p>