<p>several of you were generous with your comments re the phd program in Berkeley. New info now that my son (graduating from Brown) has visited both Berkeley and Michigan and was very impressed with programs and people at both. This is for pure (vs applied) math. </p>
<p>Given it'll be his decision (and he'll talk further w/ his profs) and given funding should be covered, any thoughts on comparing the 2? Obviously the CA weather wins! thanks much.</p>
<p>Off the top of my head:</p>
<p>“Funding will be covered.” Make sure you know how (e.g. four years fellowship + dissertation year grant for 5th year, or does it have to be renewed year after year, potentially from different sources? How is he going to be covered after the 5th year?). Also check up on how much teaching he’ll be expected to do to cover that funding, and when students are asked to teach (i.e. during coursework or after?) Adjust the stipends for cost-of-living in the area. What do students do over the summer/are they supported over the summer? Double-check on health insurance; I think Berkeley in particular provides rather good health insurance, not sure about UMich.</p>
<p>Ouch! That crack about our weather hurts! Just kidding… I live near Ann Arbor and you are very right. California wins the climate contest. Winters are long and dreary here but the spring, summer and fall are beautiful.</p>
<p>I have no knowledge of either phd program, but I am definitely biased towards Michigan. Plus, I just want to say that I’m very impressed with your son!</p>
<p>Does your son have a preference in which part of the country he will live after school? Berkeley may have more networking in CA, while UM might have more contacts in the Midwest/East coast.</p>
<p>Let us know what your son decides. (Go Blue!)</p>
<p>here is an excel data base assessment released in 2011 that compares PhD programs. Send the link to your son and have him do the comparison. </p>
<p>"A Data-Based Assessment of Research-Doctorate Programs in the United States: Excel Data Table (revised 4/29/2011)
Committee to Assess Research-Doctorate Programs</p>
<p>The Data Table in Excel includes data from more than 5,000 doctoral programs offered at 212 universities across the United States. This rich resource allows evaluation and comparison of programs in areas such as faculty research activity, student support and outcomes, and diversity of the academic environment. Three formats of the spreadsheet are available. The Windows and Excel 2004 and 2011 for Mac versions are optimized for users through the use of macros that enable customized filtering and click-through to background data. As Excel 2008 for Mac does not allow for the use of macros, this version offers reduced functionality but contains the same extensive data set. It can be used by anyone whose personal or institutional computer security settings make it difficult to work with files containing macros."</p>
<p><a href=“A Data-Based Assessment of Research-Doctorate Programs in the United States (with CD) | The National Academies Press??record_id=12850#download%5B/url%5D”>A Data-Based Assessment of Research-Doctorate Programs in the United States (with CD) | The National Academies Press??record_id=12850#download</a></p>
<p>Oh my gosh, I can’t even understand the description for the data table. And that is why I didn’t get a phd in math… or anything!</p>
<p>Neltharion gave you about 25% of what’s relevant. (And it’s very relevant – I know at least one kid who turned down Berkeley because of funding uncertainty and too heavy a teaching load. Not in math, though. And no idea whether Michigan is any better.)</p>
<p>The other 75% is really what professor(s) the student expects to work with, and how their students get treated. That’s not something a parent can help much with. If your son is big enough (and good enough) to get into two top math programs, he’s big enough to figure out where he fits best.</p>
<p>Forget about the weather. Berkeley is great, but so is Ann Arbor.</p>
<p>Although Michigan also has an excellent PhD program in mathematics, Berkeley is one of the top places in the world to study mathematics. If I had to choose one for my child’s graduate school, I would choose Berkeley without hesitation.</p>
<p>thanks for all your responses. I sent him the link, menloparkmom.</p>
<p>Villagemom, I think he’s leaning more to the west coast, which is why I knew he must have really liked the sound of Michigan to have it be such a contender. Also, he loves NYC and is still waiting to hear from Columbia which could win out.</p>
<p>Good questions, neltharion, will follow up.</p>
<p>and thanks for the reassurance, JHS, this post is obviously more for me than him! It’s hard to let this process percolate and be so out of it…I think it’s called letting go…</p>
<p>Look, it probably doesn’t matter… but most educated people around the planet have heard of Berkeley. Michigan? Not so much. I know a guy with a PhD from Berkeley (not in the sciences) who has a company with someone who got his PhD from Penn. You know whose degree always gets oohs-and-ahhs? Not the Ivy League one!! (It drives the Penn guy slightly nuts, especially given how much he invested in his Ivy League undergrad vs. good-ole-UCs)</p>
<p>Few schools have the renown of Berkeley. Frankly, for good reason. </p>
<p>Go Bears</p>
<p>(PS The above is TOTALLY biased. Cal grad speaking here. But go Bears anyway.)</p>
<p>^^Yes, quite biased. East of the Mississippi…to Europe…, we are not so moved by Berkeley, it’s seen as an underfunded, overcrowded state school in a hippie town. Good weather and great academics in the same location are also suspect.</p>
<p>Go Ivy (any); go Blue</p>
<p>Both are top ten programs. Either will open pretty much the same doors. At this level the choice will be somewhat dependent on your sons’s particular mathematical interests–the best fit.</p>
<p>Both state universities have taken big hits overall because of the economy and cutbacks, which is a point in favor of Columbia. </p>
<p>Berkeley is well known over the years for non-curricular aspects of its culture. It became famous in the 60s for Mario Savio. In the academic world, the two schools are neck and neck at the top of public universities. </p>
<p>(Off topic: Michigan answers the question: Which school has the most elite athletics and academics under one roof? Stanford is a competitor in that category.)</p>
<p>Generally, Berkeley has better grad programs in science and technical fields, but in math they are pretty close.</p>
<p>I have heard in the past that Michigan has a lot of foreign profs, but I don’t know whether that is true.</p>
<p>My professors always seem to sell Berkeley over UMI if anyone wanted to apply to both from my college…</p>
<p>collegealum314 – Is there a US research university with a math department that ISN’T made up primarily of foreign-born professors? </p>
<p>mom in virginia – your son has a nice set of choices. I wonder if/how the TA world has changed now that a lot of universities offer “service” calculus courses on-line? (Calculus for economics, psych or business.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Oh, so I’m not the only one who thinks Berkeley’s a little too nice for hardcore, nose-in-the-book studying? :D</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m not in mathematics, so I really have no idea. However, wherever I heard it from made a point to say that it was different from other universities, that is, had more percentage of non-US faculty. Even if it was true, this may be really outdated.</p>
<p>Pay extra attention to JHS (#6).</p>
<p>If your son is planning to enter a PhD program, he is most likely doing undergraduate research.</p>
<p>His current advisor would probably be the most helpful resource for him. That professor knows what area within math your son is interested in, and (because academia is a small world), probably knows the faculty members at Berkeley and Michigan who specialize in those areas. He or she would have insights that no one else could provide.</p>
<p>There may also be other professors in your son’s undergraduate department who can help, especially if he hopes to do his PhD research on a topic that’s very different from his undergraduate research.</p>
<p>Unless we happen to have a professor on mathematics on this board, this is really not a question that can be answered on a general internet forum. Choosing a graduate program is not remotely like choosing a college (e.g., weather absolutely should not be a factor in the equation). OP’s son’s professors should be guiding him in this choice.</p>
<p>Back when H and I were shopping for PhD programs, the ONLY thing that really mattered was the reputation of one’s advisor. Weather, number of foreign profs - that stuff didn’t matter. It really came down to the guy (and back then, it was all guys…) you wanted to work with and his name in the field.</p>
<p>And many times, that guy didn’t even work at the big-name universities. Joe Schmo at Yale or Berkely could easily be second fiddle to John Doe at Montana State.</p>
<p>Who are the “names” that your son wants to work for, and how do THEY stack up?</p>