<p>Give me a job where you could do with Just a philosophy undergrad? without law school, med school, grad school, etc? almost nothing.</p>
<p>it leads to no job which = no job security = poor = homeless</p>
<p>^ teach (in a non-university setting, obviously) I'm sure there are other, more obscure things. Give me a job that you can get with just a BS in math... or bio.... or psych??</p>
<p>As has been mentioned in this thread and on these boards, a bachelor's degree doesn't open too many doors. It used to be that graduating high school was quite the accomplishment, getting into college a great achievement, and achieving a bachelor's degree was remarkable. Nowadays, graduating high school is a given, attending college is expected, and achieving a bachelor's degree has lost some value. Nowadays, to really market yourself in a career that shares the same subject as your major, you need an advanced/graduate degree. Philosophy, just like most other majors will not open many doors in the form of a bachelor's degree.</p>
<p>ikke_tmr,
I like having a touch of Math/Philosophy. I was really Math-centric my first semester (leaving behind my high school aspirations of a Philosophy degree). This semester I sort of returned to my "roots" and found fun in school again. I see a lot of potential for interesting things in Philosophy so I'm overall more excited about learning this semester. That said, I do miss Math a bit.</p>
<p>I definitely don't think math is separate from philosophy. In fact, at Princeton, there's a program within the philosophy department involving the philosophy of mathematics. It's great (although I won't be involved in it since I'm not too fond of math). I've found that much of mathematical theory (especially in the upper levels of math) is philosophy-oriented, which is pretty cool. I can't wait to be a PHI major, simply because there are so many ways you can use that education to your benefit. I hope to use it as a springboard to pursue law studies after getting my Bachelor's, but honestly, philosophy can be used for almost anything. It's hardly an "extinct discipline." In fact, I don't think philosophy will ever die out, even if there were nothing else left in the world.</p>
<p>Zero is an idiot.</p>
<p>If math can be applied to the real world, please tell me how the square root of -1 is represented in reality?</p>
<p>Anyone that's taken a dab in deductive logic has to know Ferge/Russel and their contribution to math (arithmetic). Without Ferge, most all of Math would be just nice notions rather than provable fact.</p>
<p>you're on the right track. Interdisciplinary fields are the wave of the future. Don't get caught up with whats going on over there...</p>
<p>Go with the best departments of the interdisciplinary fields you want to explore, if you want to do real research... =D</p>
<p>"Zero is an idiot.</p>
<p>If math can be applied to the real world, please tell me how the square root of -1 is represented in reality?"</p>
<h2>hahaha, this was great, I loved your proposal here! :]</h2>
<p>guys, don't be too harsh on zero, I mean what I think his original intent was, was that you can't really get 'business-oriented' or 'industrial' or '21st century style' position with a bachelor's degree in philosophy, as opposed to say like an accounting/econ/business or finance major that can open several doors with a bachelor's.</p>
<p>So I think he meant this.....that if you want to study a more "lengthy, time-consuming" major (such as philosophy, math, or biology) - you would need to go to doctoral school in order to obtain the fullest potential of that major which will THEN LEAD to "higher career".</p>
<p>Because think about it, this world today means business, people are demanding more and more of it......so majoring in a more "wonderous" major like philosophy for an undergrad **might<a href="I%20didn't%20say%20is">/b</a> not get you a significant job as the business undergrad would.</p>
<p>you know, today this world means business as the "huge thing", then if you "go with the flow" of society and get a degree you can easily obtain a great job.</p>
<p>but if you choose to stray AWAY from the flow (today the people on earth frankly don't give a rat's ass about how ethics, thought, perception, and theories work or explain situations - like I said, it's more leaning towards business now) as they DID back in the days of socrates and plato, then you can still study it, </p>
<p>BUT, since you chose to go "away from the scene", then you are going to have to go the extra mile and hit doctoral school in order to be "up on par" (in terms of status of course) with the people who followed the popularity of todays "hottest majors" (business, accounting, etc.)</p>
<p>--> meaning people today know that those thinkers in the past practically answered all the questions regarding life and such for us in their time, whereas today the world operates different. change, man. it's the only constant in life. people change, the world changes, day by day..</p>
<p>let this analogy that I stated above serve to you as an answer ONLY if one wishes to "adjust" to the issue of conformity and stereotypes.</p>
<p>and plus, we can't expect for EVERYONE to be an econ or business major now can we, otherwise it'd be a boring earth. "opposites attract" (which of course you have heard....)</p>
<p>other than that, you can major in whatever you want. it's you're life so do what you like.</p>
<p>The strength of a major in philosophy is not the knowledge of abstract concepts or Lockean theory, but the ability to think.</p>
<p>Even today, despite what the numbnuts on this thread are insinuating, philosophy majors do incredibly well in the workplace. I think this can be evidenced wonderfully in the fact that they have one of the highest acceptance rates to medical school of any college major. These guys can think.</p>
<p>Philosophy stresses thought. Now, to the uneducated or naive, a major in philosophy is reading Plato and engaging in reverie all day before writing a 3 page paper about forms. In reality, a good philosophy program at any major university is based in large part on logic courses. These courses are akin to the level of thought needed in the higher level of mathematics, but in many ways require more complex and engaged thinking.</p>
<p>That said, anybody who thinks that their major decides their career is either:</p>
<p>A freshman
A high school student
An idiot
Or any combination of the previous three.</p>
<p>Welshie stated:</p>
<p>As has been mentioned in this thread and on these boards, a bachelor's degree doesn't open too many doors. It used to be that graduating high school was quite the accomplishment, getting into college a great achievement, and achieving a bachelor's degree was remarkable. Nowadays, graduating high school is a given, attending college is expected, and achieving a bachelor's degree has lost some value. Nowadays, to really market yourself in a career that shares the same subject as your major, you need an advanced/graduate degree. Philosophy, just like most other majors will not open many doors in the form of a bachelor's degree</p>
<p>This is so wrong it's absurd. What can you do with just a BA/BS?</p>
<p>Consulting, CPA, become an officer in the military, become a congressman, become a senator, get a job with the government, work for a variety of businesses, pretty much anything short of medicine and law.</p>
<p>I'll give you an example: I do work for an NGO right now. Part of my job is to help with a fellowship process. Many of the people applying have only BA/BSs, and are at G13-15 level in the government. That means, in real life terms, $75-100K a year. Plus benefits. Plus healthcare. Etc. etc. What can you do with just a BA? A LOT.</p>
<p>My last post in my series of real-life exposure:</p>
<p>Give me a job where you could do with Just a philosophy undergrad? without law school, med school, grad school, etc? almost nothing.</p>
<p>Give me a job where you cannot do with "just" a philosophy undergrad [degree]?</p>
<p>Hell yeah UCLA; good answer! I agree....</p>
<p>so what about my post? what do you think</p>
<p>I agree in part. I mean, there is certainly the current hardon that so many people have for econ/business degrees. However, I doubt any of them realize that:</p>
<p>The richest people on earth, by and large, did not get business degrees.
Although the MBA is increasing in importance, many CEOs are still without them.
An undergraduate business degree is hardly the foot in the door so many high schoolers imagine.<br>
Every job I've ever had has said that my Japanese language skills were a bigger factor than my major.</p>
<h2>**read this whole post! you will like it.*</h2>
<p>Life is too short to be DWELLING on such impudent, meaningless topics such as this one. </p>
<pre><code>Claiming this major is bad vs. that major. If you claim this then its ethnocentrism in the philosophical sense.
If you reject it then you are being a cultural relativist in the philosophical sense (pretty sure you all know cultural relativism = do what you want, say what you want, but not at the expense of others).
</code></pre>
<p>This type of discussion takes you nowhere but in circles. </p>
<pre><code>At first you might be right but then you are suddenly wrong. Hence you get no where because the argument is infinitive. Here is a PERFECT example to illustrate what I just said; somebody stated this in an earlier post:
</code></pre>
<p>And second, are you so blinded by the narrow position that the only purpose of education is preparation for the workforce that you cannot see the importance of deep thought and becoming a whole individual?</p>
<p><~~~ this statement was advocating that a philosophy undergrad receives the same education as an economics undergrad, and although the results after the sudy could differ, when it comes to the net result, it is impossible for one to be inferior or superior to the other major because they both address a different concern which is no greater or lower than the other concern.</p>
<p>Well, now, would this be accurate? When mentioning concern not being inferior or superior, how Could one explain this:</p>
<pre><code> QUICK! Only one can be saved. A plane filled with 250 people is about to hit a business tower that has thousands of persons. Which would you save?
</code></pre>
<p> ARE these concerns even ? Are they equal? One concern is greater than the other. Or is it? What if (unknowingly) the tower was filled with THOUSANDS of adults, while the airplane was filled with 250 children?</p>
<p>Now what are we to do? Which concern is greater? </p>
<p>The number of point A (the tower) is tremendously higher than the number of point B (the airplane). However, the fruit of point B (children) is worth more than the fruit of point A (adults). Or are we ASSUMING THIS?</p>
<p>The thousands of adults in the tower have successive careers, families, and status. They are successful and prosperous. </p>
<p>The hundreds of children in the plane account for much less than the adults, but they are young and have parents that love them more than anything. Simply put, they are CHILDREN.</p>
<p>Remember, THOUSANDS vs. a mere hundred .and the history of both points are explained (thousands of successful workers, hundreds of terrified, helpless children). </p>
<p>Which concern is higher?</p>
<p>Oh gosh. Yes this is philosophy.</p>
<p>but ur not garenteed a job with a philosophy major. ur garenteed an engineer job with an engineer major, garenteed a business job with bus. major, etc. with philosophy major, the only thing ur garenteed is mcdonalds job, or homeless.</p>
<p>You're guaranteed nothing if you can't spell guarantee correctly.</p>
<p>No, you aren't guaranteed a job with an engineering degree. You have an awfully good job of getting one, but you're certainly not guaranteed one.</p>
<p>The point is, a philosophy degree can do you quite a bit of good if you're willing to apply the learning.</p>
<p>For the record, the only guarantees in life are death and taxes; the latter is often considered the more heinous of the two.</p>
<p>ur garenteed an engineer job with an engineer major, garenteed a business job with bus. major, etc.</p>
<p>are you really that naive?</p>
<p>I graduated with a degree in philosophy - now i'm pursuing a graduate degree in International Relations.</p>
<p>Rousou, Jefferson, Locke - philsophers that shaped the constitution of the U.S.A. (Possibly wouldn't have the system of government you have now without these men)</p>
<p>Pythagorus - philosopher claiming that the entire universe was "one"; and so much more (look it up) - but most people only know him for his work with mathematics</p>
<p>Demacritus - first to believe in the idea of the "atom" - spawned significant scientific research (which continues to this day) in finding the single foundation for life (electrons, quarks, whatever)</p>
<p>To those who think a degree in philosophy is useless: If your only purpose in your college education is to get a degree to secure a job, then philosophy isn't for you. College, historically, was not intended for that purpose. It is sad that it is now a requirement to have a college degree before getting a simple business job that you could pick up with adequate training (but i guess that just how things have evolved). </p>
<p>Those people who major in philosophy are looking for a deeper sense of education. Not purely what will give them the most economical/material/whatever gain. It is an exploration of the consciousness. Strictly translated a "love of wisdom". Its not for everyone, and thats fine. But don't disrespect people who want to broaden their horizons. If you can't understand that, then don't try, just go work your 9-5, and shut up.</p>