<p>oh... forgot to mention Darwin... most people consider him a scientist.... read a lot of his work, while its based in biology, much of it is philosophical.</p>
<p>Those people who major in philosophy are looking for a deeper sense of education. Not purely what will give them the most economical/material/whatever gain. It is an exploration of the consciousness. Strictly translated a "love of wisdom". Its not for everyone, and thats fine. But don't disrespect people who want to broaden their horizons. If you can't understand that, then don't try, just go work your 9-5, and shut up.</p>
<p>::applauds:: amen to that</p>
<p>i'm not trying to disrespect any particular majors. but i want assurance of a good job after graduation. whats the point if your gonna work in mcdonalds or homeless without a job? how many companys specifically state "philosophy majors" ? none. i've seen many that say they want "business majors, eng. majors, comp.sci. majors, finance majors, accounting majors,tech majors, nursing, etc. ect, more, more ,more. most people dont want "love of wisdom" or whatever deepers education. most people want to graduate and get out of school as soon as possible so they can start having a career.</p>
<p>"oh... forgot to mention Darwin... most people consider him a scientist.... read a lot of his work, while its based in biology, much of it is philosophical."</p>
<p>darwin is ancient. no physicist, engineer, scientist, businessman, etc, ect. , etc., ever needed philosophy.</p>
<p>just my 2 cents.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but i want assurance of a good job after graduation.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There is none. Zero, zip, zilch. I know people with engineering degrees with terrible jobs. I know people with religion studies degrees making six figures a year. </p>
<p>This whole notion of a major deciding your life is absurd. Most Americans change career paths now what, two, three times? By the time you're looking at your second job, your degree becomes less important than your work experience. 10 years down the line, your degree is peripheral. </p>
<p>You need to study what you enjoy in college, because that's the surest route to developing YOURSELF, which is what these great jobs want.</p>
<p>
[quote]
physicist, engineer, scientist, businessman
[/quote]
</p>
<p>WRONG. Richard P. Feynman (you may have heard of him, he was pretty smart.) was as much enamored with philosophy, and the exploration of life itself, as he was in physics. Einstein was arguably a philosopher as much as a physicist. </p>
<p>Stephen Jay Gould was a philosopher as much as he was a biologist. You think that he could have developed punctuated equilibrium without a firm foundation in philosophy? Fine, if you don't, then read his tracts on the PHILOSOPHY of biology.</p>
<p>Descarte was just as famous as an original physicist, physiologist and mathematician.</p>
<p>The very notion of deductive and inductive reasoning, so KEY to our lives in the scientific era, were developed by philosophers. </p>
<p>Many of the leading universities in the world's B-school programs actually require studies in the philosophy of business. <a href="http://www.phil.cam.ac.uk/business/forum_index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.phil.cam.ac.uk/business/forum_index.html</a></p>
<p>Shall I go on, or is this enough?</p>
<p>and as an etymological sidenote, what do you think Ph.D. stands for? You know, the same Ph.D. that people get in all subjects, from engineering to chemistry to political science....</p>
<p>PHilosophiae Doctor
"Doctor of Philosophy"</p>
<p>interesting, huh?</p>
<p>Majoring in Mathematics-Philosophy and Mathematics are two different things. Mathematics is just what it is. Math-Phil is more meta math than it is math, like logic, foundations etc. BTW jpps1, there are many physical applications of square root of -1. Complex Analysis is usually a required class for mathematicians, physicists, and even engineers, and is highly applicable. </p>
<p>"I know people with engineering degrees with terrible jobs. I know people with religion studies degrees making six figures a year." This is very misleading.</p>
<p>"I know people with engineering degrees with terrible jobs. I know people with religion studies degrees making six figures a year." </p>
<p>very misleading. its all about the odds. your chances of getting a good job with a religion degree is about as good as winning the lottery. with an engineering degree, the odds are 88%-99.99% of landing that sucessful job.</p>
<p>why do you pull those odds our of your rear end? There is no such guarantee (even odds of "88%-99.99%") for anyone, and that is what UCLAri was pointing out.</p>
<p>the point is odds are in ur favor if u major in something that is career focused like nursing, pharmacy, medicine, law, engineering, business majors, eng. majors, comp.sci. majors, finance majors, accounting majors,tech majors, nursing, etc. ect, more, more ,more. in this age of confusion and uncertainty, its in ur favor to learn something that can get you a real job. you would have a lot more options in jobs after graduation instead of just mcdonalds or homeless.</p>
<p>but you can't "major in" medicine, law, pharmacy, etc etc. These are graduate programs (as can be nursing). Second, you won't get very far with just a bachelors in any of those other degrees you mention (save for nursing). And you're still missing the point about wisdom and knowledge for its own sake.</p>
<p>hate to break it to u, in today's world nobody really care about "wisdom" , at least not any of my friends. nobody wants do to liberal arts anymore, its all about getting out of school as soon as possible and getting a job.</p>
<p>yes u can get pretty far with just a bachelors in accounting, business, etc. proof? just look at forbes 50 richest billionaires. most of them dont even have past a bachelors degree. even the richest one, bill gates was a college dropout, proof that u don't need "knowledge" or higher educations to suceed.</p>
<p>The notion that they dropped out and it made them rich is absurd. They dropped out because they were brilliant to begin with and managed to establish successful companies during their college career.</p>
<p>Sure, many of the top 25 dropped of college, but of the 12 richest Americans, 5 still got degrees, and I think 4 got graduate degrees. Education still counts.</p>
<p>And I hate to say it, but your friends don't really describe the world. How is it that many of the most successful scientists and luminaries of our time still appreciated learning for the sake of learning?</p>
<p>Oh right, they weren't a bunch of tools.</p>
<p>hate to break it to u, in today's world nobody really care about "wisdom" , at least not any of my friends. nobody wants do to liberal arts anymore, its all about getting out of school as soon as possible and getting a job.</p>
<p>well then thats just pathetic of you and your friends, and really of whoever else feels this way. It's quite sad to see how shallow many people have become. Personally, I can't imagine not being a student, and even after I become a doctor, I plan on practicing in a university teaching hospital, and I will continue to take courses in history, philosophy, the sciences, etc. until I die. And I will be content knowing that my goal was not simply to "get out of school as quickly as possible just to get into some meaningless job"</p>
<p>"Because think about it, this world today means business, people are demanding more and more of it......so majoring in a more "wonderous" major like philosophy for an undergrad might (I didn't say is) not get you a significant job as the business undergrad would.</p>
<p>you know, today this world means business as the "huge thing", then if you "go with the flow" of society and get a degree you can easily obtain a great job."</p>
<p>spoken like a man with a brain. :)</p>
<p>seriously few people wants to stay in school forever or keep learning during their lifetime. look at the grads of ITT Tech, they use to like "wisdom" until they found themselves working at mcdonalds.</p>
<p>What if not everyone is driven to just be another material sheep in society? I'd rather be Jonas Salk than Bill Gates anyday. Richard Feynman is far more impressive to me than Donald Trump.</p>
<p>Some of us don't judge a person by their checkbook.</p>
<p>i realize that but i'm willing to bet the majority of america's (or the world's for that matter) population will disagree with you.</p>
<p>Who wants to be part of the majority? The majority doesn't make the history books, a select few make the history books.</p>
<p>If you want to go out and be another nameless sheep, fine. I for one strive to be the best I can be, and if that means giving up a few grand here and there, so be it. There are more important things than money.</p>
<p>Howard Zinn: A People's History of the United States. That is a real history book.. But I still agree with you.</p>
<p>xSsJ4s0ng0kUx100x, not everybody's goal in life is to become a hugely rich businessman. As UCLAri said, Feynman is more impressive to him than Trump. To me, I would take any Fields Medalist over a rich businessman any day.</p>