<p>yeah. i'd bet at least 60% of actual front office ibankers are from the ivy league.</p>
<p>I also bet, out of the few they take, they have racial diversity quotas to fill.... so half of them our going to be minorities, making it even harder to get a job.</p>
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I also bet, out of the few they take, they have racial diversity quotas to fill.... so half of them our going to be minorities, making it even harder to get a job.
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<p>Regardless of whether there is an implicit racial "quota" that gets met or not, REST ASSURED that the majority (if not all) of those "minorities" are the HIGHEST of the HIGHEST achievers - cream of the crop.</p>
<p>So any innuendo (which may or may not have been intended), but regardless, let is be clear that any notion that they "don't deserve to be there" holds absolutely no water - these are people who are more likely than not destined to attend top tier grad schools and then onto the executive suite.</p>
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This is just for Ross undergrads, but it is a good indication.
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<p>But that's the problem - you are basically comparing apples vs. oranges.</p>
<p>OF COURSE Ross undergrad employment numbers (from their website no less) are going to look fairly impressive (at least from a relative national U. perspective) - no question about it. </p>
<p>But when it comes down to it, you really have to compare UMich (non-Ross) undergrads and what %-age go into the bulge brackets vs. the %-age of Ivy grads that secure bulge bracket jobs to get a true sense of whether Mich cuts the mustard. Afterall, aside from Wharton undergrad, no Ivy has a tailored business undergrad program.</p>
<p>Even with Ross, let's face it, the brutal truth is this: when a new incoming i-banking class all get together - and they are all trying to "size each other up" - and you've got "Mr. Ross undergrad", people will probably say something cordial, but are more likely to think:</p>
<p>"dinged from Wharton."</p>
<p>"Regardless of whether there is an implicit racial "quota" that gets met or not, REST ASSURED that the majority (if not all) of those "minorities" are the HIGHEST of the HIGHEST achievers - cream of the crop."</p>
<p>I'm not to sure about that... Alot of compaines (not sure about Ibanks) take unqualified minorities to fill racial quotas. Alot of engineering jobs, use to have entrance exams for people wishing to pursue a job at their company. The companies had to drop the exams since they couldn't fill the racial quotas (even though they made the exams easier). I remember this, it was some Swedish engineering company that came to STL. They also have this at AT&T and at a bunch of places. </p>
<p>I'm not sure about Ibanking but I bet they do the same thing, it's inevitable. If there is 20 openings, and 10 of those are reserved for minorities with 200 people applying. I'm sure some unfairness will happen.</p>
<p>Ivy grad, I think what they are most likely to think is "who's his father?"</p>
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Alot of compaines (not sure about Ibanks) take unqualified minorities to fill racial quotas.
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<p>There are very few places, programs, institutions, companies, etc. that are 100% merit based (save, say, perhaps, when it comes to qualifying for a spot on SOCOM's Delta Force or becoming a NASA astronaut).</p>
<p>So, yeah, at the margin, there are always going to be a certain number of "underqualified" people who slip through any selection process regardless of how selective (be it at Harvard Law School or Goldman Sachs) - this just reflects the true nature of the real world.</p>
<p>THAT SAID, that margin is very very slim indeed when it comes to securing a highly sought after i-banking analyst spot. It just comes down to simple supply and demand (not to mention the grueling interview process which culminates with the infamous "Super Saturday" - they still have those I assume) - at any given bulge bracket firm there just aren't that many spots to give away "freely" in the cut throat world of investment banking.</p>
<p>Alexandre, can you post engineering schools that will also lead to maximized ibanking opportunities? I heard Operations Research/Systems Engineering is also a popular path to the ibanking because it is quantitatively demanding.</p>
<p>"Even with Ross, let's face it, the brutal truth is this: when a new incoming i-banking class all get together - and they are all trying to "size each other up" - and you've got "Mr. Ross undergrad", people will probably say something cordial, but are more likely to think:
dinged at wharton"</p>
<p>lol then what do they say about dartmouth/columbia/yale/brown/penn kids?
dinged at harvard</p>
<p>Quit being a clown.</p>
<p>Confidential, any top Engineering program at a top University (Cal, Caltech, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, Michigan, MIT, Northwestern, Princeton, Stanford and UIUC) will attract I Banks.</p>
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lol then what do they say about dartmouth/columbia/yale/brown/penn kids?
dinged at harvard</p>
<p>Quit being a clown.
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<p>I think I have to agree with nyusternman here. </p>
<p>The truth is, every undergrad program out there is not looked at in the same light as Harvard. Fair or unfair (and I do think it's unfair), that's the truth. </p>
<p>Now don't get me wrong. Are there some people who turn down Harvard for other programs? Of course. That's why Harvard's yield rate is only 80%, not 100%. Yet that yield rate is the highest in the country. But what I am saying is that there are more people at other programs who'd rather be going to Harvard but didn't get in, than Harvard people who'd rather be going to that other people but didn't get in. </p>
<p>This is true even at Wharton. Let's face it. There are probably more Wharton kids who'd rather be going to Harvard than there are Harvard kids who'd rather be going to Wharton. Not all of them are like that, but I think the trend is clear. Like it or not, the Harvard name has a special hold on the American psyche.</p>
<p>er, don't you mean you disagree with nyusternman?</p>
<p>he was making a sarcastic comment to my previous one.</p>
<p>I agree with everything Ivy_Grad has written in this thread up to this point.</p>
<p>FWIW, nobody in my department would have been in awe of a Harvard grad. They were not novelties there; we saw them all the time. The ones we hired were no different, or better as a group, than the people we hired from these other schools. IMO.</p>
<p>Except that I think Cornell now has a tailored undergrad business program.</p>
<p>exactly. it's not like wharton is SO much better than ross or MIT or whatever. like theres plenty kids at stern with 1550s who were rejected at wharton because they weren't "well rounded enough, (perhaps too introverted during interview or didn't have business connections)" whereas a 1400 kid gets into wharton. these days its a crapshoot so only an idiot would look at someone from one top program as "dinged" by another one.</p>
<p>uva mcintire has great representation and is visited at least twice a year by every single bulge bracket firm for recruiting</p>
<p>Jezus, getting into the best business schools is like getting your foot into the door. It isnt some magical thing that automatically get u into ibanking. If you dont get into the best, you just have to look for ibank jobs solo, and most large schools have specialized programs where practicularly every student in the program gets into finance.</p>
<p>Getting into the top business schools are easy compared to getting into any medical school. Mizzou medical School (Not even a top medical school at all) for example, has the same acceptance rate as Harvard Business School. It's crazy.</p>
<p>"Getting into the top business schools are easy compared to getting into any medical school. Mizzou medical School (Not even a top medical school at all) for example, has the same acceptance rate as Harvard Business School. It's crazy."</p>
<p>true, but theres a lot of tricks to medical school. the craftier students will take their pre meds at community colleges, plus the class size is smaller.</p>
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Getting into the top business schools are easy compared to getting into any medical school. Mizzou medical School (Not even a top medical school at all) for example, has the same acceptance rate as Harvard Business School. It's crazy.
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<p>interesting analogy...</p>
<p>let me ask you, if you were to undergo a complicated operation - say triple bypass surgery - which cardiologist would you go with - the one from Mizzou or the one from Harvard Medical School - all things being equal, and why?</p>
<p>similarly, when a hot company like Google goes public via an IPO or when there is a multi-billion dollar merger at stake - why is it the SAME firms (Goldman, Morgan, Merrill, Citigroup, Lehman, CSFB, etc.) always dominate - when there are literally DOZENS of Wall Street firms around? (don't take MY word for it, for those of you who have access to historical league tables - do a run for the top underwriters of debt & equity / merger advisors for the 60, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s - those same six firms will occupy the top slots (with intermittent re-shuffling of positions) decade in and decade out. There is a reason why they are called the "bulge bracket" - they simply do a disproportionate amount of business relative to the number of other firms out there - the "bulge" of the business if you will.</p>
<p>its very simple. in both cases, the cream rise to the top. and in the world of investment banking, financial reputation and stability comes with consistency over time (e.g. hiring the best people). </p>
<p>Take a quick look at the Refco fiasco as the latest example of why second tier firms will always be second tier.</p>