MD/PhD discussion.

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>Just wanted to ask:</p>

<p>1) What is the long term benefit of commiting oneself to an MD.PhD program?</p>

<p>2) What should a competitive MD.PhD applicant have (in terms of undergrad research, MCAT, GPA) to be admitted?</p>

<p>3) Does applying MD.PhD simply mean applying exclusively to the med school AND a particular department of the Grad school? And does acceptance to both mean you're MD.PhD OR is there a single application? </p>

<p>4) Would applying MD.PhD to one place affect one's admissions to their MD prgram and any other MD program? If they can't admit you MD.PhD, would they think that admitting you as MD would'nt matter since you "wouldn't wanna attend anyways" , and because they'd think that this would deter their enrollment records? (Just like Undergrad adcoms sometimes reject applicants cause they think they won't enroll anyways: a strategy to improve yeild..)</p>

<p>5) Can one be admitted M.D initially, and then at the end of his/her first/second year apply to the university's grad school so as to enter the MD.PhD program ?</p>

<p>6) Is MD.PhD the only pathway to enter the field of acadmic medicine [the reason I ask is 'cause some of the proffessors at our med school are simply MD....hence I'm confused]</p>

<p>7) Would doing well as an MD.PhD boost your chances at being admitted to top notch residency programs such as orthapedic/general/neuro surgery, Dermatology etc.?</p>

<p>8) Do med schools know all places that you applied to (as from your FAFSA etc.), and would it hurt to apply MD to some and MD.PhD to other medical schools?</p>

<p>9) Is your entire medical education paid for if you're an MD.PhD? If not, how does one even afford getting this degree?</p>

<p>10) What are you're comments, concerns. Do know someone/ or did you ever consider/were admitted MD.PhD.</p>

<p>(Sorry for asking too many questions! I rely on your expertise and advice.)</p>

<p>Thanks veterans!!</p>

2

<p>Alot of the questions I believe will vary somewhat on the school you end up attending.</p>

<p>Like for #5 - my school asked during the first year for apps from M1's for the MD Phd program. Might have been open spots or just offering it as an option.</p>

<h1>9 I do think that most programs have some substantial financial incentives set up, ranging to full cost of attendance.</h1>

<h1>6 - no it is not the only path to academic medicine. There are plenty of clinical professors who are only MD but who love to teach and mentor med students/residents. The PhD is going to push you more towards the research divisions however. Your main expectation with such a degree is that you will be doing much more research than teaching.</h1>

<h1>7 - Again, the MD/PhD signifies your intent to pursue research over clinical practice. If you apply to a program that is heavily research orientated, it might be a benefit, otherwise it won't. (at least I don't think it would).</h1>

<h1>3 - at least at my school, the PhD's are granted by the medical center. There are plenty of grad students interested in the biomedical aspects of a number of different fields (ie Cell Bio) that are doing their research at the Med Center (also they don't like teaching), and so they get their degrees from the Med center, rather than the university it is attached to. However, the Medical Center is actually considered a separate campus within the university system (with it's own chancellor, administration and budget provided by the legislature), which may not be the case in other states.</h1>

<h1>8 Most people I know who applied MD/PhD, also applied to other schools as strictly MD. I think that is hedging your bets and making sure you have some options. I have one friend who was accepted to an MD/PhD program but then decided that he only wanted the MD (and that he didn't want to sign his life away - an MD/PhD is a very long program).</h1>

<p>Sorry for getting everything out of order.</p>

3

<p>The thing you must understand is that there are three types of MD/PhD tracks out there. One is to do them separately - perhaps at the same school, perhaps not. Second, you could do them together, but not get them paid for. This track, I don't know much about. Third, you could work through the federal government's MSTP program. This is the most common track, and the one I'll discuss from here on out.</p>

<p>1.) Generally it's meant to allow you to get a foothold into a research track earlier - this is beneficial for writing grants to the NIH later on, establishing your own lab, getting a university hiring, etc.</p>

<p>2.) Varies wildly from school to school, but you should know that on the numbers and research it's much more competitive.</p>

<p>3.) This varies depending on the track you're taking. For MSTP, it's a single application.</p>

<p>4.) Every school that considers you for an MD/PhD, if it rejects you, automatically considers you for an MD as well, but my suspicion is that you're exactly right; they probably would be concerned that you'd go elsewhere for an MD/PhD. This is not a universal, as I do have a friend who applied to a school MD/PhD and was admitted to their MD program.</p>

<p>5.) Varies from program to program, but more often I believe the answer is no for MSTP funding. Of course they won't complain if you want to give them extra tuition for another four years.</p>

<p>6.) Academic medicine is full of MD's. If you're talking about basic science research, that's usually where you'd go with an MD/PhD, although of course that's not 100%. In other words, an MD/PhD's career often looks more like a PhD's than an MD's, but exceptions apply.</p>

<p>7.) Yes, conditional on the assumption that these top-notch residency programs are research-heavy. Just as with med schools, there are some research-heavy residencies and some that couldn't care less. Generally the residencies associated with a school will have the same priorities as that school, i.e. a Harvard (MGH) residency will probably have a research priority, too.</p>

<p>8.) AMCAS does not tell schools which other schools you applied to, but I do know that kids continue to use FAFSA. The timing is very different, of course, since med school admissions are (mostly) rolling, but I'm not actually sure.</p>

<p>9.) Yes, MSTP is fully funded plus a stipend. My understanding is that the stipend is on par with what you'd expect from a normal PhD program.</p>

<p>10.) Yes, I know lots of people pushing for this track. It's obviously a very long time. One of my friends, I suspect, is doing it just because it's free, which is (obviously) a foolish economic decision.</p>

4

<p>Thank you guys!</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
Every school that considers you for an MD/PhD, if it rejects you, automatically considers you for an MD as well

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Nah, this isn't true. Take the case of Johns Hopkins. JHU specifically says that if you get rejected by the MD/PhD committee, then it is up to both the recommendation of that committee and consent of the student that you be considered for just the MD program. I also infer that when it makes a reference to 'outstanding' applicants, that must mean that if you are not outstanding, then not only will you be rejected by the MD-PhD program, but you will also not be considered by the MD committee. But the point is, it certainly isn't * automatic *. </p>

<p>"...outstanding applicants who are not accepted into the MD-PhD Program may, upon recommendation of the MD-PhD Committee and consent of the student, be considered by the regular MD Admissions Committee."</p>

<p><a href="http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/mdphd/admissions.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/mdphd/admissions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Furthermore, I would point out that this was a change made at JHU just a few years ago. Hence, in the past, if you were rejected by the JHU MD/PhD program, then you couldn't be admitted to the MD program either. That leads me to believe that there are probably other MD/PhD programs that still do that. I don't know any off-hand, but the fact that JHU was one of them until just a few years ago leads me to believe that there are probably others.</p>

6

<p>Huh. Just goes to show I shouldn't believe everything I'm told. Thanks, sakky.</p>

7

<p>so, MD/PHD program doesn't mean like you can study medical while getting a PHD for another major like English, Psychology etc?</p>

<p>and is that possible to get a nonscience PhD degree while in medical school? like in A&S school of the same university?</p>

<p>so, PhD is only for science like biology?</p>

<p>sry about that stupid question.
Thanks</p>

8

<p>It's possible to do such things, of course, but most MSTP programs will not accept such a thing and you'd therefore be doing it on your own tuition money.</p>

9

<p>So I've read and heard a lot about star MD.PhD Physicians. Now, my question? How do these guys manage to get something like over 10 'honorary doctorate degrees'? Does that mean, getting 10 PhD's ? or is a doctorate degree simply bestowed upon those that finish research in a new area/field?</p>

10

<p>LOL. An "honorary degree" is a degree that some school gives to a famous person simply for being famous. Euphemistically, it's for "making a contribution to the world at large" or something. More commonly it's a way to get them for graduation speakers.</p>

11

<p>I wanted to ask a random question...</p>

<p>So do you think med school adcoms would dig through their undergrad admission record files to see if a current med applicant applied as an undergrad....(I know they'd ask that on their application) And how would the fact that they were accepted/rejected earlier, and decided not to enroll weigh into their selection? Would they even bother lookin at a persons previous essays/activities, SATs, ACTs and what not?
(Silly ques...Eh?----I know, but I'll still ask)</p>

12

<p>No, I can't imagine this would matter except in the case of celebrity recruits - i.e. if some school had recruited you to play basketball and you'd issued some kind of media statement telling the press that you just "didn't like the campus atmosphere" or something like that.</p>

<p>And no, none of the schools I applied to (25!) asked if I'd applied to their school for undergraduate admissions.</p>

<p>The exception, of course is the "bonus" or "penalty" you receive for being an undergrad at that institution.</p>

13

<p>How hard is it to get into MD/pHD? I've heard it more competitive than getting into plain Med School which kinda has me worried b/c after a sucky Freshman year my GPA is a 3.194. I should have somewhere around a 3.7something when I graduate, should I just give up now and shoot for getting into a pHD program?</p>

14

<p>... you've just come out of your freshman year with a 3.2 and you're predicting a 3.7? What makes you so confident?</p>

<p>In any case, yes, MD/PhD is harder than regular MD.</p>

15

<p>I was about to write the same thing. All these HSers and freshmen penciling themselves in for a 3.9 and a 40...</p>

16

<p>Switched my major. Going from taking all Honors Chem to bio makes a big difference at this school.</p>

17

<p>Still premature to make such a projection.</p>

18

<p>Switching majors, from one science to another no less, makes you think you'll be able to get a 3.8 or so every year until you graduate (in order to get to a 3.7 overall)? That seems more than a little overly optomistic to me.</p>