Medicine for Money

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>This topic has probably been beaten to death a few times so why not beat it to death once more for another money hungry individual? </p>

<p>Here is my dilemma, I am a rather intelligent monkey aiming to live a comfortable, well-paid lifestyle. Like many other overachieving high school seniors, I only have a couple of choices for professions, businessman and medicine. </p>

<p>Business is a rather broad term so lets just say private equity, management consulting, investment banking, money management, or perhaps trader if I feel daring. </p>

<p>Medicine is probably limited to a few specific types of medicine: radiology, dermatology, and anesthiaology.</p>

<p>Everyone says, "Oh don't be a doctor for the money. They do not earn much after you consider medical school tuition and the time lost for their schooling." But from what it looks like to me, the doctors do earn that much. If a dermatologist takes home his average pay of 250k, that is a decent chunk of change rivaling the compensation of any top MBA graduate. </p>

<p>Also, it is not like MBA students do not have to go through school either. Sure, it is 2 years less than med school, but is 2 years truly that significant in the grand scheme of things? </p>

<p>Do doctors earn any less than top MBA school graduates? Cause if that is the case, why shouldn't I just become a doctor? To be honest, medicine is probably a better fit for me as a person. I don't really have that gungho, buttkissing salesman attitude, and allegedly I seem to be "caring" at times so perhaps I have what it takes to be a doctor. THe tests and premed life is no problem for me. </p>

<p>However, I am scared about the future. Physician compensation is getting squeezed. Medicare, overhead, etc seem to threaten to continuing lowering physician compensation. So I am hoping by age 30 (after residency), I will be able to earn top dollar like all the kids on wall street. Is that possible? </p>

<p>The people on Wall Street do not seem to earn much for all their hardwork. I-banking, allegedly one of the most lucrative occupations, only pays 200k or so to new MBA graduates. The burnout rate is also quite terrible. Medicine seems to have a much higher hourly wage. </p>

<p>Also, with the increasing wealth of china, there seems to be many business opportunities being made. Does that necessarily translate into extremely lucrative salaries or opportunities or does it just mean that there will be more jobs in the future without higher salaries? </p>

<p>Both MBAs and med school will cost money. Neither is cheap. So will medicine truly be less profitable than finance as teh looming healthcare crisis in American seems to suggest?</p>

2

<p>1.) You're naive if you're boiling the difference down to two years. First, you're completely ignoring residency. Second, you're ignoring that money earned earlier matters more than equivalent sums earned later, a concept you'd better get into your head if you're trying to do anything "for the money".</p>

<p>2.) Third, a medical career along the ROAD is by no means guaranteed, so you run the potential of investing all that time and ending up in a profession entirely different than what you signed up for.</p>

<p>3.) See "Physician Compensation Economics". Notice that the really high-paying professions -- management consulting, private equity, investment banking -- are omitted in favor of the much tamer "corporate finance".</p>

3

<p>fastMED~
yes, you're right that the money thing is a poor way to create your future if it's the ONLY thing you're primarily considering. but the MD world is not what it used to be! after years of brutal training, loans, exhaustion, loans......you then meet the monster of MANAGED CARE!!!!! as a new, young doctor it can't be ignored. it's a nightmare. so think twice...or thrice.</p>

4

<p>Residency is pays a fair amount. Money earned earlier on in life does indeed pay interest, but a few years of extra schooling and delayed entry into the job market does not account for the 1.3 million difference in net present value . . . Furthermore, the salaries for "corporate finance" on salary.com are much higher than what management consultants and i-bankers (as associates at least) earn and also consequently significantly higher than what surgeons would earn. Additionally, the work hours and pressure is far worse than what doctors earn. Hmm, but it is true that managed care should be a huge consideration...</p>

5

<p>You are greatly mistaken if you are going into medicine for the money. The odds are that there will be a form of socialized medicine in the next 10 years. I doubt you will make as much in medicine as with a MBA. Most doctors work 60 hours or more per week through their entire career.. They can not make their junior associate do their work.They do not get long vacations , sick leave or trivial holidays ( such as Columbus day off) as you would if you work for a investment banking firm.</p>

<p>Residency pays a fair amount? 40,000 for an 80 hour week. That comes to $10 per hour.</p>

6

<p>Don't be a doctor just for the money. Anything just for the money is unhealthy in the long run.</p>

<p>But if getting an MD is really that easy for you, maybe you should go into something like medical research and look for a cure for cancer.</p>

7

<p>Well, it is not just for the money. I have some interest in medicine. The thing is I have roughly an equal interest in finance-related stuff as well. I am just thinking that the lifestyle of a doc might be a bit better.</p>

8

<p>I think it really boils down to what you want to do. Be in the office, or be in a medical area. Each is going to pay a good amount. Naturally, people are always going to need people to handle their money and have people to heal them. However, the business industry tends to have a lot more variation in compensation than the medical field. The medical field has an edge in stability too, it is generally pretty easy to find a job once you have a medical degree. It seems like you have some time to think, I would just figure out what you would rather do, and do that... you will most likely not have a huge issue with money if you are successful with either of these career paths.</p>

9

<p>Doctors certainly aren't starving in the streets, if that's what MtL is saying. They buy houses, drive cars, and pay for children's college tuition. This isn't particularly a problem.</p>

<p>But if money really is your ONLY goal, then entering medicine is a ridiculous choice.</p>

10

<p>Well, if your going to go into it primarily for the money, you want to focus on specialties that are pretty much cash paying clients receiving nonessential services: Plastic Surgery, cosmetic dermatology. Reimbersements for anesthesia services are down. Interventional radiology and interventional cardiology currently generate high incomes in many locales, and opthamology does also. Or, go into primary care and open up a "boutique" or "concierge" practice. This is to say, you have a very limited number of patients, usually 400-500 who pay you a retainer of $1000 a year for the privilege of being able to make same day appointments, have a 1-2 hour physical exam each year, and have your cell phone and home phone number to call 24/7 when they have a problem after hours. (Most physicians have an active patient base of 4000, not 400.) You also bill for all services rendered, along with the retainer. </p>

<p>Bottom line though, you really have to want to practice medicine to ultimately be happy doing do. And the specialties of plastics, cosmetics, and concierge medicine draw a rather "demanding" clientele, with very high expectations. ("I am a plastic surgeon, not a magician..." if you know what I mean.)</p>

11

<p>Yes, that is what I am saying, BDM. However, even in business you're not necessarily going to make a ton of money. There is a lot of risk involved (or time working your way up the ladder) with business - you could be a CEO making a lot, or you could find yourself without a job because the business bottomed out, but most likely you'll be somewhere inbetween making a decent amount of money. The point is, if you do what you love, the money will come and your life will be much happier.</p>

12

<p>doctors dont make all to much anymore, not worth it.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
doctors dont make all to much anymore, not worth it

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oh please. Stop with that. Clearly, this is untrue as many people enter medecine for money and are successful with it. Certain internists might not get paid much (relative to other doctors), but surgery subspecialties like the ROAD get paid very well.</p>

<p>@ Bluedevilmike,</p>

<p>
[quote]
1.) You're naive if you're boiling the difference down to two years. First, you're completely ignoring residency. Second, you're ignoring that money earned earlier matters more than equivalent sums earned later, a concept you'd better get into your head if you're trying to do anything "for the money".

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I've seen you talk about physician compensation economics and how early money is worth much more than money later on. I think you might be missing a point.</p>

<p>Assuming one can get on the ROAD, even if they don't make money early on due to residency, their compensation is excellent in their 30's and beyond.</p>

<p>Under your corporate-finance-MBA money making plan, one would have to be a very careful invester early on to make a lot of money. Taking the ROAD, you can still be wealthy and not necessarily invest wisely.</p>

<p>Big difference.</p>

<p>
[quote]
2.) Third, a medical career along the ROAD is by no means guaranteed, so you run the potential of investing all that time and ending up in a profession entirely different than what you signed up for.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think this is one of the arguments that makes sense. Take the ROAD, you will be wealthy. However, it is so competitive that failure to match in a surgery subspecialty can leave you with medical jobs such as an internist, in which case an Wall Street is definitely more lucrative.</p>

<p>To sum up: Medecine can definitely be for money, but you have to take the ROAD to success. If you don't, you are not on the same playing field as those in Wall Street.</p>

14

<p>1.)
[quote]
many people enter medecine for money and are successful with it

[/quote]
For now. We'll see what the future holds.</p>

<p>2.) The point is not how well one invests. It's about how much the money is worth. The money is more valuable early on. If you squander it because you're young and foolish, that's one thing. And if you feel like you'll be less likely to squander it after spending 11 years in relative poverty, that's potentially true too. Or if you think you're less likely to squander it if you receive it in large chunks later rather than smaller installments earlier. You can invent all kinds of reasons why you might behave more wisely with it later on, but the fact that the money is worth more when you're 22 than when you're 33 is a *non-circumstantial *economic reality.</p>

<p>Money earns interest because it is more valuable early on, not vice versa. (That is, that money is more valuable early on and for that reason it earns interest in a bank. The cause and effect flows this way, not the other way.)</p>

<p>3.) And, by the way, even if that weren't correct, 7% does not require particularly wise investing. 7% a year would, in fact, be reflective of rather poor investing.</p>

15

<p>If you want to do it for the money why don't you become a PA or a CRNA. The training is far less rigorous and time consuming than becoming a doctor. You start off making $120-150,000 and most hospitals pay your malpractice insurance ( at least for PA's). Taking the medicine route will be hard and long. Competitive specialities such as rads onco, derm, and plastics are extremely difficult to get into. And if you do surgery, the lifestyle is horrible, and you will be stuck doing more than 80 hrs a week for 5 years. And since you want to make more, general surgeon is not enough, you need to specialize and thats another 2-3 years. Good luck but there are other options.</p>

16

<p>All you medecine nay-sayers. It is really amusing to find so many people here who criticize medecine for its money potential.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And if you do surgery, the lifestyle is horrible, and you will be stuck doing more than 80 hrs a week for 5 years.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Great generalization there, buddy. Most people in business who want to make a lot of money end up with long hours as well.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Taking the medicine route will be hard and long. Competitive specialities such as rads onco, derm, and plastics are extremely difficult to get into.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And who is to say that trying to make over 200K in business isn't? Give me a break - making over a 200K salary is generally hard no matter how you get it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And since you want to make more, general surgeon is not enough, you need to specialize and thats another 2-3 years. Good luck but there are other options.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>If you are smart enough to get into a good medical school, you are smart enough to get on the ROAD. Yes, it is competitive, but if you get on it is an EXCELLENT option.</p>

<p>@bluedevilmike</p>

<p>
[quote]
For now. We'll see what the future holds.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't believe private practice ROAD salaries will be dropping anytime soon. Let me know if I am incorrect.</p>

<p>I am honestly so surprised that there are so many people who will bash medecine for its money potential. There is definitley money in medecine. There is money in business too, but the ROAD medical careers guarantee you a great career.</p>

17

<p>Cardene, I disagree with you on basically everything you are said but I was curious what ROAD stood for?</p>

18

<p>Radiology, Ophthalmology , Anesthesiology, Dermatology</p>

19

<p>The problem is in business, the real earners, i-bankers, etc shave away at their lives, and i-bankers do not earn much considering the high tax rates and intense hours. Are there any high-paying jobs that do not shave away at your life? </p>

<p>250k for a 80-100 hour work week is not decent compensation. What exit opportunities do people in such careers have? I keep hearing stuff about exit opportunities and how you can just find a job with much easier hours immediately after a stint in i-banking. Would the much easier hours also entail a much lower salary?</p>

20

<p>You will definitely not max out at $250,000 in IB.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.careers-in-finance.com/ibsal.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.careers-in-finance.com/ibsal.htm&lt;/a> Note the table at the bottom.
<a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article344842.ece%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article344842.ece&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>