<p>There is no more Bachelors Degree Pharmacy, just PharmD.
And yes many schools are accelerating their pharmacy programs. </p>
<p>and 6 years, compared to 4 years undergrad.. Isnt that a difference of 2?
What do you mean opt out?</p>
<p>If your Bachelor's takes you four years, and you are comparing to a school which gives you BOTH in six years, then yes, that's two.</p>
<p>Obviously, however, that is not what you're talking about.</p>
<p>Your Bachelor's is going to take you THREE years, and both takes you six. So that's THREE extra years, not two.</p>
<p>First rule of economics: always think at the margin, not at the average -- meaning that you're talking about three years, not two. Second rule: consider the opportunity cost, meaning that you're not just talking about lost tuition, you're talking about foregone wages.</p>
<p>Third rule: Sometimes you can set your taxes too high, and actually choke off enough of your economy that tax cuts boost government revenue. The third rule has nothing to do with you. I just thought I'd share for levity's sake.</p>
<p>BMD.</p>
<p>can u please elaborate on this concept of "professional snobbery"? u realize it isn't about Organized_Pharmacy trying to enter medicine. it is about an INDIVIDUAL possessing a PharmD degree (with other good things like a 3.9 GPA and 36 MCAT) wanting to become a physician.</p>
<p>what exactly makes this person unfit to get an MD?</p>
<p>why would this person be a STRONGER applicant WITHOUT the PharmD?</p>
<p>u concede there are people u know who have several years of pharmacy experience who were admitted to an MD program. that probably puts them in their 30s. why would an MD program admit a PharmD who is in their 30s, and has less time to contribute to a career in medicine, if they were biased against Pharmacy to begin with?</p>
<p>Well, 2 or 3 years, it makes no difference to me. It is nothing to me in the long run. </p>
<p>I understand the concept of opportunity cost, however, this is just something I am going to invest in. </p>
<p>I feel that the experience gained from obtaining a Pharm D will be more valuable, than just having a bachelor's degree. </p>
<p>Also, the 6th year is mainly composed of internship, etc. </p>
<p>And, in my reasoning, it will take me 2 years extra to complete this 6 year program, than if I was to take a 4 year undergrad curriculum. </p>
<p>Besides, there is a substantial number of college undergrads, especially at more competitive institutions, that take 5 or more years to complete their degree. Many do not make it into med school at first, and spend time in research labs with professors, or finding other experience.</p>
<p>1.) I need you to realize that I am speaking from my own hypotheses and anecdotal experience here and that I have never claimed to have any data available. So I'm amenable to being incorrect, but so far nobody here has convinced me.</p>
<p>2.) When I talk about professional snobbery, there are several things I have in mind.</p>
<p>First, I think there's some tension between the allied health professions which does not bode well for applicants across them. "Oh, look at the nurse -- she thinks she can be a doctor. How... cute." This is unjustifiable but has its roots in different cultures between professions. This is the most concerning component I am worried about.</p>
<p>Second, there may be some hesitancy to pull qualified pharmacists out of an already-short situation.</p>
<p>Third, the professions really are different, and there's concern that this student would not be approaching medicine from the academic perspective that medical students are supposed to have coming into medical school. This will be especially exacerbated by students who do not have a BS in a liberal arts curriculum of some kind.</p>
<p>Fourth, it is -- in my opinion -- questionable (I won't say "unethical") to enroll in a heavily subsidized training program (as the health professions are) with no intention of utilizing that degree in a professional capacity. People change their minds, of course, but medical schools may be inclined to "protect" the integrity of pharmacy schools and nursing schools, etc. If it were widely known that a PharmD would give you a leg up in the process, then Pharmacy schools would be flooded with premeds and our supply crunch would become even more severe.</p>
<p>3.) I certainly concede that such people exist. I have never met one, and so I don't know where you're getting that idea, but the point remains. There are several responses.</p>
<p>First, I've never contended that it was impossible -- only that it might give some people hesitancy. So obviously there will be some people who've done it.</p>
<p>Second, somebody who has TRIED another career and decided they didn't like it worries me less than a student who has never tried it whatsoever and is CLEARLY using the pharmacy track as a premedical track. This is why a pharmacist in his 30's is a more appealing candidate than a pharmacist who is 24 -- because he has given his career a shot and decided he was a better fit for medicine.</p>
<p>Socially subsidized training programs are not meant to feed more prestigious socially subsidized training programs; they're meant to actually produce practitioners. My suspicion is that they recognize this and "protect" each other.</p>
<p>4.) Obviously, if you have a 3.9/36, you're stand a very good chance at some kind of medical school. That doesn't mean that everything you did was intelligent, just that the statistics were enough to compensate for it.</p>
<p>Further points on snobbery...it's kind of a dirty little secret, and while I won't say that admission committees are quite so condescending as BDM has illustrated, it certainly does exist.</p>
<p>Example - many of my female friends, when they study in public are approached by many people who see they're studying medical related stuff, and they always get asked if they're studying to be nurses (even if the person asks "what are you studying?" and my friends say "medicine" the follow up question is "oh, so you want to be a nurse?"...this is apparently pretty universal and the phenomena even has a facebook group dedicated to it). This is of course infuriating to my friends because they don't appreciate that they are assumed to be nurses, they all have very specific reasons why they chose to become MD's and not nurses. This doesn't mean they don't appreciate nurses, or think they are better than nurses, just that they are doing an entirely different process and wish they could be recognized for their work.</p>
<p>I also fully agree with and want to endorse BDM's position that a 30-something PharmD with years of work experience is an entirely different entity than a 24 y/o freshly minted PharmD. Again, the two PharmD's that I know who are current med students are the former and not the latter.</p>
<p>The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is the cost of going to 4 years of pharm school. It's a professional school and thus tuition is at a professional school level. </p>
<p>Again, if you want to be a doctor, THEN BE A DOCTOR! I think it's ludicrous to work towards other serious professional careers as sort of a stepping stone. If you absolutely have to have some sort of pharm background to work in whatever very specific career you want, I think you'd be better off going the MD/PhD route and getting your PhD in pharmacology.</p>
<p>I see your point</p>
<p>i'll say wait until u graduate, pull urself away from the "student-arena", one where u probably encounter pre-meds on a regular basis, and once u've actually worked and see what's important to your job.</p>
<p>u'll see that admissions (be it medical school, professional school, whatever) isn't the big psychological game u make it out to be. </p>
<p>people just want to know why u applied, and what u have to offer. its a very mature process. u just might have to mature in ur understanding a bit before u'll realize this. i basically used to have ur opinions too, but not anymore. its silly to think there's all these insecure MDs trying to protect some kind of "perception" about what a pre-med is supposed to look like.</p>
<p>if i see a pharmacist, and he's more outstanding than the biology pre-med and he has better reasons to attend medical school, then i take him. simple as that. </p>
<p>remember, i'm not talking someone who is CURRENTLY in pharm school. this guy finished a pharm degree. to me, that's a notable achievement that implies other things about him, including an ability to stick to something and get it done, and a professional knowledge and skillset very relevant to medicine.</p>
<p>admissions is mature and reasonable process. its not about a game of psychology.</p>
<p>just to make things clear: i'm not endorsing in any way, doing pharmacy as a path to medicine.</p>
<p>what i'm saying, and this is what the OP wanted to know, is that it is my opinion that having a PharmD will not HURT your application. if anything, it will likely only help.</p>
<p>I see your point also 14 of spades.
Thanks for the support and feedback.</p>
<p>btw . how don't care how u twist things.</p>
<p>a PharmD starting medical school at the age of 24 has a lot more to offer medicine than a PharmD starting medical school at the age of 30. the medical school isn't there to try to discover that the 30 y.o. had some sort of epiphany, and is now going into medicine to fulfill a supposed destiny. it means the 30 y.o. wrote a better personal statement. that's about it.</p>
<p>(for the record, i don't see why being a nurse is a bad prep for a career in medicine either)</p>
<p>anyways - i'm done with this thread. really no use because i'm not going to agree with u, and u don't seem to want to look outside the box.</p>
<p>i'm going to chime in on this:</p>
<br>
<p>"Oh, look at the nurse -- she thinks she can be a doctor. How... cute."</p>
<br>
<p>this is about the most arrogant thing i've read here. about the only people who would have this view are pre-meds, and cocky medical students.</p>
<p>i think most doctors know some peers who should never have gone into medicine. likewise, i think most doctors would be fortunate to meet some outstanding individuals who have lived their lives as nurses. perhaps some of these nurses consider pursuing medicine later. some of these doctors would probably be extremely honoured to write an outstanding letter of reference for them into medical school. </p>
<p>hopefully, some of the posters on this board will one day see the logic in this.</p>
<p>Please quote in context.
[quote]
This is unjustifiable
[/quote]
</p>
<p>nevermind...</p>
<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>I see some of you are considering switching over to MD after a PharmD.</p>
<p>There are some negatives with this path.</p>
<p>1) After finishing your payments of 2+4 years toward a PharmD, it's not easy to dip in loans again (for much higher rates of tuition/year) for another 4 years of MD. Financially, there is no advantage to adopting this path at all.</p>
<p>2) In regards to the time it will take you to complete your MD after a PharmD, there are no advantages either. </p>
<p>3) There are several courses that are common between MD and PharmD (for exa Pharmacology, Physiology, Anatomy, Pharmacokinetics and drug metabolism, biochemistry and molecular bio). You will have to repeat all these courses for an MD all over again! There is no advantage to duplicating the investment of time and resources to complete the same courses all over again.</p>
<p>Instead, why not consider a traditional MD after Bachelors? You could apply the time and loans toward something you haven't learnt already and get a dual degree such as MD/MPH or MD/PhD or MD/MBA or MD/JD. </p>
<p>If it is a medical path you are interested in, I would urge you to pursue that at the outset. Getting a PharmD to get an MD is not the best way to pursue it.</p>
<p>I have been in Pharma industry beyond my postgraduate Pharmacy degree for nearly 20 years. I have yet to see a single PharmD that has actually given up their job or their PharmD residency to pursue an MD. </p>
<p>Once you complete your PharmD and get a residency in Pharma companies, one gets ensnared by either the comfort of a good pay and/or the challenges of pharma R&D. </p>
<p>As I mentioned, I have not yet seen any PharmDs give up their jobs to go to med school. I have, however, seen several nurses give up their clinical research careers to go to med school.</p>
<p>If it is a medical degree you want, I suggest you become a premed. Don't throw away your time and resources completing some of the same basic science course work.</p>
<p>Just my 2 cents!
Good luck you all.</p>