<p>For purposes of truth in advertising, colleges should be required to produce clear data on "net COA," that is, total COA less grants (whether merit-based or need-based). Everything else---typically work/study and student and/or parent loans---is just another form of self-help in which YOU (and your child) are paying, not the college. FA awards can vary enormously from one school to the next, depending on the mix of self-help v. grants in the FA package. Only a tiny handful of schools can afford to meet 100% of demonstrated need with grants. The rest are going to try to persuade you that they're generously offering "assistance" by letting your kid work for the money during college, or work later to retire student debt. I understand their position; they can do only so much. But at least they could be honest with you and acknowledge that when they're asking you or your child to take on debt or substitute work hours for study hours, they're not really "meeting financial need" so much as merely pointing you in the direction of additional financial strategies by which you and your child can pay for the child's education out of your own pockets.</p>
<p>Sometimes it is a rude awakening getting the FA packages. I know the COA at my son's school, what they thought he would need, was much higher than reality, but the base cost and fees were what we worked with, not anticipated needs. Freshman year had a lot of added expenses that dropped the cost the following years.
I learned to disregard workstudy (not always available and pay is low) loans beyond the stafford and anything that is very tenuous, such as a high GPA for a scholarship. That weeded out a lot but left us with (somewhat) workable options. I still needed a parent loan, but by trial and error learned what to look for. Of course in this economy, I still don't know what to expect next year...</p>
<p>OP, if this package were offered to my child, I would say no too. Asking freshmen to go into debt for 13k, I find to be just wrong. To each his own, but we would not send our child to that school. 4 years ago, we told our son no when a school met his need by offering him 7k in loans.</p>
<p>For purposes of truth in advertising, colleges should be required to produce clear data on "net COA," that is, total COA less grants (whether merit-based or need-based). Everything else---typically work/study and student and/or parent loans---is just another form of self-help in which YOU (and your child) are paying, not the college</p>
<p>Average % need met, amount of loans at graduation ( students- not parents), and % of students who applied as well as students who were determined to have need is available. </p>
<p>Although older D's school did meet need 100% with a package we could live with, as they used the PROFILE, other students D met, who were attending, declared that their packages were hard to live with.</p>
<p>I don't have any problem with a family assuming debt for a college education, many schools do make it easier by offering credits for AP classes, providing scholarship opportunities even for schools that don't offer merit ( with outside scholarships, for attending students), work study opportunities that is self help admittedly, but also provides a way to build skills and connections for later career resources.</p>
<p>If a school is still unaffordable after the aid package, there are still ways to reduce costs and go to college, the problem is, in this multi choice society, we are used to getting what we want, when we want it. We don't like to have to rethink our options.
:(</p>
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by offering credits for AP classes
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<p>Watch this too. Many private schools only offer credit for AP classes where a 4 or 5 was earned, but not for a 3. I noticed that more state schools will accept a 3. I think that some private schools might only accept a 5. There are some private schools that will accept a 3 too. One just needs to shop for them, if that is a goal.</p>
<p>I noticed that too northeastmom, a few years back a "3" was good, then more students took the AP and now 4 or sometimes 5 is needed. Some colleges even have them take an additional test for math or english...you really have to check.</p>
<p>Debruns, isn't it strange, how some public Us will accept a 3 (ie: SUNYs), yet some 3-4th tier private Us need a 4 or 5. That speaks volumes to me.</p>
<p>I've seen second tier private universities that refuse to accept anything below a 4. Haven't seen lower tier privates that are that way. Are there really any?</p>
<p>The standards are higher for private schools because their focus is the education students are getting. Those schools also realize that a 3 grade on an AP exam doesn't mean a student has accomplished what is taught in that subject at their college.</p>
<p>Public schools' main emphasis is graduating students and doing so within a budget that is acceptable to taxpayers. Since taxpayers bear the brunt of paying for students' education, the sooner students can graduate, the better for public schools.</p>
<p>Are you sure this school meets 100% of need for all of its students?</p>
<p>I have a list of 66 colleges in the US that meet 100% of need for everyone. I just looked at it, and I see only three that are Catholic - Boston College, University of Notre Dame, and College of the Holy Cross. Each of these schools requires the PROFILE. So I can't find a Catholic college that uses only the FAFSA and meets 100% of need for all students. </p>
<p>I'm wondering if you might have misread something early on and that's what led to this surprise. I don't think colleges that do guarantee to meet 100% of need for all students include loans in their packages that exceed the federal student loan limits.</p>
<p>I tend to agree...I will have to check the small print more carefully in the future about AP exams. My son only got a 3 on one (didn't count) and the 4 wouldn't have mattered, because school didn't accept them in certain subjects.</p>
<p>There are schools that meet 100% of institutionally-determined need without excessive loans, and/or with no loans. My kids attend/attended Rice U, which now caps loans for incoming freshman at no more than $10,000 total (at graduation). For families with incomes under $80,000 there is NO loan component. For all financial aid packages, all else is grant and modest amount of work/study ($1800) and moderate summer contribution from students. It's SO important to read the financial aid information at each college you apply to! I agree with Calreader; this school does not sound like it meets 100% of need, and it is wrong for colleges to include PLUS loans in FA package and call that "meeting need". :(</p>
<p>In the Common Data Set, the question about the average percentage of need met by the college is explicit about excluding PLUS loans.</p>
<p>I used to go to the College Board to get financial statistics on colleges, but my new favorite place is a government site: Student Aid on the Web, studentaid2.ed.gov/gotocollege/campustour/</p>
<p>The user interface isn't great, but here's how to find lots of good info: type in a college name, click on the "Campus Tour" box to the right of the college name when you find it, and select the Costs & Financial Aid section.</p>
<p>One of the reasons I prefer this now to the College Board statistics is that it includes the % of students who receive merit aid, which the College Board doesn't show.</p>
<p>Thanks, calreader, for that link. Very valuable info there.</p>
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my new favorite place is a government site: Student Aid on the Web, studentaid2.ed.gov/gotocollege/campustour/
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Ditto to the previous reply. Thanks so much! I've spent some time looking at my son's college choices. One of them doesn't mail out finaid award packages until April 15!!! I think that college is going to be out of the picture...</p>
<p>oh, my, you mean colleges don't tell you about finaid at the same time they notify you of your acceptance?! I hadn't bargained on that.... That will complicate the next 2 months.</p>
<p>Ditto the dittos calreader. This site is a much easier read and I think clearer than the College Board site. I've added to my favorites list. Thanks for pointing this out.</p>
<p>Calreader -- what a great site. Looking at the school that I'd been talking about I see that the FA package is right in line with their stats -- and much lower than several of D's other schools in terms of grant aid. I'm sorry we didn't see this information back before application season -- it seems to be a lot clearer than any of the other sources, and we probably wouldn't have spent the money on the application fee. Thanks for posting it!</p>
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In the Common Data Set, the question about the average percentage of need met by the college is explicit about excluding PLUS loans.
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<p>That's true about the directions Calreader, Wake Forest has entered PLUS loans in their CDS anyway (with appropriate notation).</p>
<p>Yikes about Wake Forest - I guess it's useful to have the heads-up, though!</p>
<p>I realized when I tried to make an account, it was affiliated with my favorite site 4 years ago. Xap</a> Student Center. They said I could use the same account #. I found that site much more useful than many others and bookmarked it. It can be very helpful, although nothing in admissions fully makes sense!</p>