<p>To go back to an earlier point - one of the nice things about state schools is that they are often more up front with numbers on (academic) merit aide. D only had a couple state schools on her list (CCM and Guthrie program) but both UC and U of Minn were VERY upfront about where her grades/scores would put her with academic scholarships- almost as soon as she applied. </p>
<p>NYU was a school we applied to knowing that they were not famous for generous merit aide - but made the family decision that the opportunity was worth the price. Given that the boxes/bags are nearly packed and ready to load, I’m sure hoping that’s true </p>
<p>I don’t think being upfront about academic merit you qualify for is a state school vs private thing. Many private schools are very upfront about what academic merit you qualify for. Look at Otterbein, OCU, and others - they give GPA and test scores = $ info right on their websites - and they are private. It’s just a school by school thing whether they choose to post those details regardless of whether they are a state or private institution.</p>
<p>One of the points of confusion here is that there is not a line in the sand between merit and need as people seem to believe. Yes, if you’re Bill Gates’ kid, you’re not gong to get need based aid. But first, a lot of people who earn in the top 5% can actually get need based aid under some conditions – particularly when they add a second child going to college. And second, a lot of aid is murky. Colleges can and do give aid at their discretion, based ultimately on how much they want you, if they think money will lure you (even if you’re wealthy) and if they have the money to give. In general, privates have more freedom and larger endowments than public, but there are some public universities whose BFA programs have a lot of autonomy to give money to those they want. </p>
<p>There is no line in the sand. There is no clean cut separation between merit and need except if it’s a public university or other college with very clear parameters posted online. Even then the line can be murky.</p>
<p>Secondly, I very much disagree that it doesn’t matter what level courses you take. Just because a college doesn’t ask for weighted grades doesn’t mean they don’t take a look at the actual courses you’re taking. They are a search committee. They are human. They look at the courses. 10 AP courses are simply more rigorous than 10 non-college prep courses. Yes, it matters if you got all C’s and D’s in your AP courses. I’m talking about people who can handle it. And one AP course is better than none. The basic strategy is to take the most that you, personally, can handle. </p>
<p>If you are looking at BFA MT programs only, yes, the audition matters the most. But different programs focus more or less on academics depending on the particular conservatory program. And you also cannot possibly know what you will want when you are 15 or 16 or 17, nor can you possibly know what you will match with going in. Taking more rigorous courses - as long as you can do it, of course - increases your chances overall, period. These programs are extremely competitive. The difference between you and another person may be that you took rigorous courses; some BFA MT programs require academic classes and may well see that as a sign you will succeed in their program. It also speaks to your self discipline. It also makes you more well rounded. Yes, there are some BFA MT programs that won’t care. But again, you cannot possibly know that these will be the only ones you will want and will get into. You also can’t possibly know if you might decide to minor or double major in, say, Math. </p>
<p>I’ve been doing this for 10 years as well as with my own kids, so I’ve seen a lot of examples and ranges of type of student. Is it guaranteed you will get merit/talent? Of course not. But you can increase your chances if you focus on making yourself the most competitive that you can personally (this is personal) and if you strategize what schools you apply to.</p>
<p>@vvnstar- you are correct. BW (private) told her how much merit aide D would qualify for when we took the TOUR, hadn’t even applied at that point. And D has a friend who will be attending BW MT whose acceptance was held up b/c he was on the academic waitlist, based on the classes he had taken in high school, grades/scores etc… (they were not abysmal, but under a 3.0)</p>
<p>Both of my kids received generous merit awards from the few schools on their lists whose average statistics (GPA and test scores) were well below my kids’ averages. We heard the same thing happened with their peers as well. It suggests if you are a strong student, there is merit money to be had especially if you target schools that covet the higher scoring students because on average, they have fewer of them. Meanwhile at the schools where your high scores are within the average, even if on the high end of average, you may be less likely to see any merit money because, well, you look like everybody else at that point. It doesn’t mean there isn’t merit money to be had, especially in well endowed schools, but it does mean that you’ll need to be lucky enough to standout in some way amongst your academic score clones. That’s where you get into hooks such as superior talent, geographic or ethnic diversity, something fantastic about your essays, legacies and you know the rest. It can be done, but it’s less likely than when by test scores and GPA, your scores are obviously superior. </p>
<p>@halflokum, excellent point, and true for my D as well. And at that you (as a family) have to look at acceptances and decide what the plan will be. Is the family willing to pay more for programs you feel are the best choice for the kid, or is $$ going to be the deciding factor between schools? I don’t think there is a “right” answer- every family needs to do what is best for them, after all, they are the ones who are going to pay for it/live with it. I do, however, think it is important to have discussions about what the plan will be BEFORE applications/auditions/acceptances.
That way everyone goes in with their eyes open. </p>
<p>Cannot stress ENOUGH having financial discussions as a family throughout the process. Don’t know if its the parent shame or fear or magical thinking, but so many of my sons’ friends who are on financial aid have NO idea where their college money comes from (how much is grants vs loans, need-based vs. merit, etc.), and now as my boys are both rising juniors in their programs, I’m hearing sad stories about peers who are having to withdraw because of financial issues. (Common issue: Parents didn’t qualify for PLUS loan in year 3, although they did for years 1&2, due to some change in their financial situation.) When the finances are on the table up front, everyone can make a fully informed decision. Also important: the STUDENT must have a vested interest in ensuring all FAFSA paperwork is submitted each year. It probably seems obvious here in this community of invested parents on CC, but I’ve heard of students scrambling because mom and dad didn’t get paperwork in by the deadline. Really. It happens. Part of college is helping our kids navigate to the adult world, where they will have to file tax returns and balance bank accounts, so I think the whole college funding process is part of that. Don’t do everything in this process in a vacuum. Teach your kids to keep a calendar with deadlines for the coming year. Keep your kid(s) informed and include them in the process; it’s part of their education. </p>
<p>MTTwins point is crucial, because you absolutely cannot know how your kid will fare in terms of aid anymore. The college counseling office at our school has emphasized this repeatedly–the economic changes of the last 6-7 years have really altered the whole scenario. While some schools are quite transparent about academic aid (and if they are naming a GPA for merit aid, it probably is unweighted), they are not about talent aid, and as connections says, the financial aid sources and allocations are mysterious and mobile. My oldest and youngest kids applied 10 years apart (2003 and 2013, and a 2008 as well) and I was fascinated by how much it all changed over that period of time. I’m also interested in uskoolfish’s post–I had an advisee who went to Tisch for film in 2006, and she was told specifically to apply ED because that was where they gave the most merit aid. It’s a big, blurry, moving target, and to me the important things to remember are: be honest with your kids, research each school thoroughly in terms of current FA practices, and cast a wide financial net. </p>
<p>Can’t say how things work for Tisch exactly, but remember that when applying ED a student signing a contract to attend if they are accepted. The only out is if financial need is not met, but since we are talking about true merit aid here–no need at all–the financial factor isn’t an issue. Students should expect that they are full pay. So by signing the ED agreement you have told NYU that you agree to attend even if you have to pay in full. They have you.</p>
<p>In the RD round schools are competing against each other and merit aid packages can be compared. So to lure students at the top, NYU offers merit aid for some majors. As I said, not sure what is happening at Tisch these days (merit did exist in the past), but I know that in Steinhardt for both music and art, merit aid is given to students without need who meet top artistic criteria. It is determined at the department level as a result of portfolio reviews and auditions. I was told these talent offers are made in March of each year, after everything is reviewed and acceptances have been determined. ED candidates are not considered since they have their deposits in and have enrolled.</p>