@thumper1 – There are high profile students that I can imagine would be in high demand and considered a coup, even for the Ivies. For example, not knowing anything about his financial/application situation, the kid from the Florida shooting who is going to Harvard. There is only one of him. He had options.
Like I said, it isn’t an issue for us mere mortals, but there is a difference between “can’t” and “don’t”. Sounds like from your response this is a “don’t” situation.
I am sure they still do lure non-athletic students if they feel like the student offers something truly unique and important to the campus. Basic supply and demand. Just because the numbers are overwhelmingly on the demand side, doesn’t mean there aren’t rare exceptions.
The most selective schools, in general, do not give out scholarships. They do not need to do so. They can get the students they want without having to pay them. Other than those with financial, and those, such schools can generously fund
@CateCAParent so you are suggesting that these extremely generous schools should lure desired students…who don’t have financial need…by offering them money? I just can’t imagine why they would do that. At all. The schools in the Ivy League do not offer merit aid. And they are in agreement on this.
They just don’t need to “lure” anyone.
There are six top twenty schools that DO offer merit aid. Students can apply to those schools if merit is needed…or to the many, many other fine colleges that do offer merit aid.
ETA…any special things these student have done will help them get accepted to these highly competitive top 20 schools that don’t give merit aid. And if they have financial need as accepted students, it will be met (as the school calculates it to be). So…these students…the “lure” might just be getting accepted.
I don’t think Harvard is competing for anyone. If they think an applicant will be successful they will offer them admission but I don’t think in the end they need to lure or compete for any applicants. If David Hogg had gone to Princeton or Yale, Harvard wouldn’t have been devastated.
Exactly. @CateCAParent they just don’t. There may be only one David Hogg, but if they didn’t get him they’d still have 30 other truly one-of-a-kind students. The T20 schools that DO offer merit do so to lure students AWAY from HYPSM.
“ETA…any special things these student have done will help them get accepted to these highly competitive top 20 schools that don’t give merit aid. And if they have financial need as accepted students, it will be met (as the school calculates it to be). So…these students…the “lure” might just be getting accepted.”
I think the T20 schools that offer (very selective) merit aid (Duke, ND) are trying to lure kids in. I imagine if the kid is full-pay that would be very attractive. Every year we see a thread or two by kids with an acceptance in the HYPS range deciding between one of those schools and the big merit offers from Duke. D’s friend at ND was accepted to 3 of HYPS but took the Hesbugh Yusko scholarship at ND.
ETA: those scholarships come with other perks too, not just the $$.
I was using “lure” more generically, because of course money may not matter to some of the unicorns out there that any school would want to have on their campus. Malia Obama could go anywhere she wants. She probably has things she needs/wants from a school (security and privacy come to mind). At a minimum, a school would have to be willing to accommodate her unique situation. They wouldn’t require her to pay more to have her attend, to cover those expenses, would they? Or movie stars who need flexible accommodations for their work schedules – they may not offer it to the run of the mill undergrad, but for special cases, why not? That is luring, in my mind. Not in a bad way. Enticing? Re-assuring?
Why are people are reacting so strongly to the suggestion that private institutions would use their abundant resources any way they please to maintain the rarefied air so important to their branding? Or that the Ivies do compete with each other for students?
Small grants to be sure, yet not need-based. Not many need based only schools have numbers on this line to my knowledge, but of course, there is no penalty or consequence to making ‘mistakes’, or real mistakes, on the CDS.
I think it is partially an “Ivy League” historical thing and partially a supply and demand thing. ie, they dont have to offer merit scholarships because they already attract the most talented students and can’t possibly accept them all.
I think one question the kids and the parents want to ask themselves when picking schools is will I or my kids thrive in the school. Yes, even if you can get to certain schools, will you be competitive in that school to do premed, prelaw, or maintain good GPA for your scholarships, etc. I know kids who struggled at Ivy’s and gave up their premed dreams. Or can’t get into certain career because of low GPA and fierce competition, e.g, consulting, IB, etc.
I went with D to GT for Stamps scholarship interviews. During parents panel, one dad whose daughter is a Stamps scholar shared how his D got a F on one class and had to retake the class and couldn’t get the scholarship that whole year due to GPA restriction. He told us that his D met her boyfriend at Stamps finalist trip, and her boyfriend didn’t get the scholarship. Meanwhile he had better grades and better job prospects than her. He joked that the scholarship panel made a mistake with his D and her BF.
I think that example illustrates both the randomness of scholarship awards and the necessity of finding a college that you can thrive in instead of just looking at the money itself.
Top 20 is also a fluctuating list and it can depend greatly on what area of study one seeks. CMU for CSI, NYU for location , theater, business, Cooper Union, Tufts, BC, BU for Boston , Emory for size of school. The DC schools for opportunities in IR, politics etc. Top LACs like Davidson, Swarthmore for incredible teachers and close environment of being with top scholars. If you include these factors, there will be more schools with merit opportunities.
@Mwfan1921 I bet those Midd and Brown merit scholarships are NMF scholarships. Many top schools still give $1000-$2000/year for NMF and those are reported as merit.