Michigan (LSA Honors) vs. Northwestern (Medill) for Black Students

College Search & Selection
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All advice welcome! My daughter has finalized her choice to LSA Honors at Michigan and Medill at Northwestern and now she is stuck. Cost for us is similar, and she is okay with the weather (well, not okay but ready to deal with the snow - we are in the mid-Atlantic region), and she has identified her main issues/concerns with each campus. If you have any insight about these concerns please share!

Michigan
Pros:

  1. She is undecided and would be able to do some exploration, and any degree she chooses would likely be a top program since it is Michigan.
  2. She wants “rah rah” (coming from a small high school with no school spirit) - wants the fun of college - but isn’t into the Greek Life scene - just wants the tailgate and fun times at football games with friends. Not a huge sports fan but wants to become one of the crowd on game days.
  3. Honors housing so she wouldn’t have to take the bus to get to main campus.

Cons:

  1. Overall focus on academics at the undergrad level is weaker (compared to Medill) - less opportunity to write and get feedback on her writing (that is a passion of hers). Larger classes, you are more like cattle as freshman and sophomores.
  2. Harder to find faculty mentors as an undergrad, especially someone undecided
  3. Social life for a Black female students unclear (are there any clubs or groups she should know about - including the current status of any of the Divine Nine?)
  4. Lonliness (even in a crowd)

Northwestern
Pros:

  1. Medill is an awesome program and she will still take lots of liberal arts classes
  2. Study abroad and internships off campus abound (but does this coming and going of students create a challenge to feeling connected to each other as a class?)
  3. Quarter system (her current school uses a similar system and she loves the faster pace with options to take more classes).

Cons:

  1. The social life - everything she is finding indicates, especially if you are at Medill) you will not have a social life.
  2. The “rah rah” is limited and not centered around the sports teams
  3. The fun is limited to hanging out in small groups but that sense of campus coming together fades after orientation.
  4. Imposter Syndrome is real at Medill. Everyone doing way too much (getting overextended and stressed out) and never quite feeling like you belong there or are good enough there, especially as a BIPOC student
  5. Campus attracts socially awkward folks, and this is increasing in recent years.

Thank you, in advance, for your thoughts!

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Both are great choices. Congrats to your DD! Reading her pros/cons, Michigan seems closer to the college experience she is seeking.

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Thanks! Helpful to have fresh eyes and minds weigh in. I am sure she would have more fun at Michigan but a better academic experience at Northwestern for her area of interest (writing and maybe international business - but maybe psychology…she is truly undecided). Hoping someone familiar with the current BIPOC experience at Northwestern and Michigan can also provide insight. Thanks for your reply!

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@myecap1

I was hoping someone with first hand experience would reply to you. Though not first hand, I do have some knowledge of Michigan, and thought I would share what I know. (I’m a long time lurker on CC, but this is my first actual post. Apologies in advance if I screw up the formatting!) Hopefully some of this information will prove useful to you and your daughter.

Huge school issues:

She will undoubtedly encounter some large lecture classes, especially in popular subjects like Economics, Psychology, Biology, etc. They will almost all come with smaller (~25 student) discussion sections, run by PhD student TA’s. This is not necessarily a bad thing; TAs are usually very knowledgeable and approachable, and will help her with learning the subject matter. As for the lecture itself, the usual advice is to sit near the front of the room, go to professor’s office hours and introduce herself at the beginning of the semester (most students wait until midterms or when they’re behind and having problems)-most professors are more than happy to engage with enthusiastic students interested in learning. Also, read the material before class, so she’ll be familiar with it during lecture and able to really listen instead of just frantically trying to take notes.

She will have a built in cohort in her honors classes and dorm. Hopefully she will be able to find friends and study buddies among them that help shrink the environment

She can seek out some of the smaller/less popular departments for smaller classes and closer contact with professors

Re the rah rah aspect, spending Saturday afternoon at the Big House with 100,000 of her closest friends is an experience not to be missed :blush:

Academics:

As “undecided”, during her first few semesters she should take prerequisite classes in majors she’s exploring, rather than trying to cram in all her distribution requirements right away. She has four years to complete those, and it could be a nice distraction later, when she’s heavy into her major, to take a lower division distribution class in a different subject. This way she will be well positioned to declare any number of majors when she is ready.

Definitely take a First Year Seminar. They are small (18 max) seminars offered by many many departments. They will be a nice balance to the large lectures, and a good way to sample a subject she’s interested in, or to try something completely new. She can search the LSA Course Guide to see samples of what’s been available in previous semesters. LSA Course Guide (umich.edu)

Re journalism interests: Though not as focused as the Northwestern Medill program (which I admittedly know nothing about), she may be able to piece together many similar courses/experiences through the English Department and the Communication and Media Department. She might also check out the Sweetland Writing Center, and the Michigan Daily campus newspaper. This English Department page has many useful links: Journalism | U-M LSA English Language and Literature (umich.edu)

Re business interests, LSA students are allowed to take classes at Ross, but I do not know the reality of actually getting those classes

Re “international”, depending on her interests, she may want to explore any of the many Area/Ethnic/Language and Culture Studies type departments. Some (not all) will be smaller departments with smaller class sizes. Again, she can explore the LSA list of majors/minors page, as well as the Course Guide, for further information.

Social:

S.I.B.S (Support for Incoming Black Students) is a mentorship program providing academic, social, and professional support and connections. Support for Incoming Black Students (S.I.B.S.) - Mentorship Program | Multi-Ethnic Student Affairs (umich.edu)

Re clubs and organizations: the Maize Pages have information and links to the hundreds of groups on campus. Explore - University of Michigan Maize Pages (umich.edu) To search, go to the Organizations tab, pick a category (e.g. Academic, Cultural/Ethnic, Performing Arts, etc), or alternatively search keywords such as Black, African-American, etc. There are so many in each category, so you’ll have to do a lot of scrolling! For example, there are dozens of “Black Students in XYZ” (insert your school/college/major/profession of choice).

Re the Divine 9, several have chapters at Michigan. I do not really know their individual status, though of course everything has been restricted the past two years due to the pandemic. You can poke around the various pages to see what sorts of activities they’ve had in the past, and will hopefully have again by the time your daughter starts school in the fall. | Fraternity & Sorority Life (umich.edu)

In general, my impression is that the Black student community at Michigan is very vibrant and supportive. Again, hope this is helpful. Best of luck to your daughter!

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I don’t have any firsthand experience with a student of color, but my daughter is a sophomore at Michigan so I was going to comment on a couple of things:

Has she considered applying to the Residential College at Michigan? It would give her smaller classes, a lot of personalized attention with professors, and guaranteed housing on Central Campus.

The English classes my daughter has taken (LSA requirements, not as an English major) have been small and personal. It is a small sample size, but her English classes have not been large and she has forged relationships with the instructors.

I think there are two historically black sororities on campus, but I don’t have insight into how strong those communities are.

My daughter is a photo editor for the Michigan Daily. She has had the most amazing opportunities through it. I agree with you that comparing Medill with journalism opportunities at Michigan is tough, but Michigan does have a tradition of producing writers even without a journalism major. The Michigan Daily is the largest and only print newspaper in the county, so they cover all aspects of news. It has been the defining activity in my daughter’s experience so far.

If she thinks she would be happier at Michigan, I wouldn’t worry that she can’t achieve her same goals there. Medill, though, is probably hard to pass up from the name recognition and prestige alone.

I hope someone else is able to answer your questions in a more specific way! Good luck to her!

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Honors housing is South Quad. Honors has the entire floor to themselves. The freshman athletes are also housed in South Quad. Trust me, she will not be lonely. South Quad is a beehive of activity with Greek life immediately across the street.

My D18 was in housed in West Quad freshman year and she met her best friend at South Quad.

Ross offers a business minor. An application is necessary. And I’ve heard of no issues getting Ross classes. CS does have a two class limitation, unless the class is not at capacity.

There isn’t many, if any, schools with more “rah rah” than Michigan. If she chooses Michigan, she will hear “Go Blue” for the rest of her life any time she wears clothes that say Michigan.

Walking up to the Big House for game with 111,000 fans is an experience. And most of the Michigan teams are outstanding. The men’s hockey team plays in the Frozen 4 tomorrow night, I believe. And women’s gymnastics is the defending national champion.

My D21 is now in a quarter system and loves the faster pace as well. She came from a semester based HS though, so it was adjustment that your D won’t have to make. And Medill is obviously a fantastic choice.

Two great choices. One private, one public.

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Since no one has responded with first hand experience at NW/Medill, I can check with the mom of my D’s close high school friend. She is a black student in Medill. Stay tuned and perhaps I can get back with some useful information.

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Wow! Thank you so very much for this thoughtful response full of helpful information! I printed this out and shared it all with my DD. Again, thank you so much!!!

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So great to hear your daughter has had such a great experience as a photo editor and that she is finding the class size is reasonable and had the change to get to know instructors. Thank you for your response - every bit helps!

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That would be great - we are mostly worried that is it a bit of a pressure-cooker and the students don’t have much fun. I appreciate your efforts to provide some information and help for us!

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So true about going to a game with 111,000 of your new closest friends! She would love that! Great compare/contrast points and I really appreciate the added perspectives! Thank you for taking time to respond to my post!

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I’d be curious to know where you heard that Northwestern has no social life and that the campus attracts socially awkward folks. Of other mid-size elite privates, Northwestern has always been known for being more of the opposite.

I will also say that your first “pro” for Michigan is very much true for Northwestern as well.

Both options are excellent, but Northwestern (especially Medill) would appear to be the stronger choice barring any financial concerns. Certainly less “rah rah” than Michigan (but then again, the vast majority of schools would be), but there is most definitely more school spirit than at other comparable institutions.

There is a decent contingent of BIPOC students at Northwestern and it’s growing every year, but I don’t know if there’s a single PWI that’s faultless in its efforts to cater to BIPOC students. Most students would find NU to be more conventionally diverse than Michigan.

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I lived in Chicagoland for around 25 years, off and on, and several members of my family attended Northwestern for undergrad and masters programs. We now live in MI and my son applied to UofM for engineering. My thoughts:

  1. NU cannot compete with UofM for sports related school spirit. That said, NU is a Big 10 school, and periodically has respectable teams, especially in basketball.
  2. NU is just a short commuter train ride away from one of the greatest cities in the country with museums, live music, theater, restaurants, festivals, etc.
  3. Winter at both schools will be a bit of a shock to someone from the mid-Atlantic states, but there will be more snow at NU and the wind coming off the lake is biting.
  4. Journalism is a specialty program, and Medill has been one of the top rated journalism schools for decades. According to Collegefactual.com (USNWR did not rank journalism schools, or at least I could not find the ranking) UofM isn’t even on the list. Do they even have a journalism school? If you want journalism, go to NU.
  5. NU does not have a reputation for socially awkward students, at least outside of CompSci and Engineering. Generally, the students there are well rounded and social. The wealthy entitled mentality, however, is strong with Wildcats. UofM students and alumni have a reputation for being a bit full of themselves in MI, and I know hiring managers who refuse to interview there for engineering because of this.
  6. Both campuses will be very welcoming for black females, or students of any background for that matter. I would be surprised if both did not have multiple clubs, student organizations, etc. geared toward about every group.
  7. My niece graduated from NU around six years ago and she loved it.
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OP - congratulations to your daughter. I’m following your thread because my son (not black, but of mixed race) is also considering NU and another big 10 for CS in engineering and not Medill. I’m esp interested because the CONs you listed for NU are my son’s exact concerns. At a recent admitted student tour, each student went around to share their prospective majors. All but my son spoke about double majors and minors in various combination. Afterwards, my son chuckled privately that he will be the least accomplished student at NU because he will probably not double major and add minors if he attended NU.

My son, currently in HS with semesters, is not too concerned about quarters. However, I worry about the faster pace and wonder if NU’s mental health issue reputation is related to it. From our HS, I am sadly aware of at least 3 different students who had mental health issues in various degrees. At the same time, I know several who did well there but often spoke about the pace is definitely challenging until they got the hang of it.

If my son changed his mind about CS, then I think NU will be excellent because it has a strong reputation in so many areas. However, he does not think he’ll change this mind, but he’s only 17!

“The wealthy entitled mentality, however, is strong with Wildcats.” This is also a concern…

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Not by much, IMO. I could only find NU’s 2020-2021 CDS. Michigan’s is 2021-2022.

White students:
NU 41%
Michigan 53%

Black students:
NU 6%
Michigan 4%

Of course, Michigan is a large public school and admits about 50% of their student population from the State of Michigan.

Here’s a CC short thread from 2017 about Northwestern social life:

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My D is a current NU student and I’ll give my 2 cents. IMO previous response from JakeH2021 was spot on.

My D is an engineering major, but has roommates & friends at Medill. We are a local IL family, so I’ve spent time with these kids (e.g. some could not travel home during Covid, so stayed with us during breaks, etc.).

They all seem extremely happy with the program, and with their upcoming summer internships, travel abroad, etc. These are definitely a group of very high achieving kids, but I’ve met them for dinners, football games, etc. and they definitely make time for a social life too.

The average NU student is brilliant, ambitious, self-starting, and able to juggle many things (academics, research, clubs, sports, social life, travel, etc.). NU is a great environment for my energetic daughter who doesn’t like too much down time and seeks a variety of challenging opportunities. Other kids (including her siblings) could be overwhelmed by this environment.

I’m not sure what you mean by “socially awkward.” I would not consider my daughter or her friends socially awkward at all. They are stylish, well-traveled, great conversationalists with a wide circle of friends. IMO they come across as mature for their age, focused, caring, well-spoken, intellectual, and worldly.

For my D, there are college environments that would not be as good of an academic or social fit as NU. My D had a great group of friends in HS and she now has a great group of friends in college. Her NU friends are from various majors and, though she and her friends have internships/study abroad, etc., she has not found there to be any “social disconnect” within her class.

As far as “imposter syndrome” goes - that could be true. When I asked my daughter what she had in common with other NU students, she said “We all don’t know how we even got into NU.” Mind you, these students are all incredibly accomplished, yet they do seem to think they accidentally got into NU and need to now prove themselves worthy. For my D, she seems incentivized rather than overly stressed by this notion. They are incredibly impressed when looking at the accomplishments of their classmates. They talk about each other in glowing terms.

They deserve to be where they are, but they are a humble bunch. They are kind, and care a lot for each other. It is amazing the level of support and teamwork I have witnessed between students. Though it is a competitive college, it feels so supportive and not at all cutthroat. These are the exact type of people I want my child to surround herself with. As a parent, I feel so blessed these are my child’s friends and they have her back.

I have several friends who are Michigan alum and that is a fantastic school too. NU has plenty of school spirit, but not nearly the level of Michigan football game spirit. Though I did attend several 2021 NU football games/tailgates and was pleasantly surprised on the large attendance # and NU spirit displayed.

Some of the CC posts made it seem like NU students just study 24/7 and don’t have time to socialize or attend games. I have not found that to be the case (and my daughter is a 4 class/qtr Engineering major with a 3.8 GPA). IMO NU students can balance a lot because NU admissions select the right kind of students and these students are surrounded by incredibly supportive professors and peers.

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cag, I am not sure if you are an IL resident, but did your son also apply to UIUC for CompSci? It is #5 for CompSci and #6 for CompEng, while NU is #23 and #27, respectively. The student body would be more diverse (at least in socioeconomic terms), they are on semesters, and in-state tuition is a beautiful thing. If he is set on CompSci or CompEng several other programs in the Big10 like Wisconsin-Madison, UofM and Purdue are stronger than NU.

As for double majors, they are less common when the major in question is very competitive and demanding, like CompSci. That said, if the minor is related - say, math - where there is overlap on required classes it is doable.

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This is a tough one, I’m pretty familiar with both colleges, I would lean to NU because of Medill and Evanston being a little more diverse than Ann Arbor. The Michigan Daily is pretty strong in its own right and you’d have more flexibility in LSA wrt majors/minors. Also the quarter vs semester is a significant difference. Again, they’re really close for the reasons given so far in the thread.

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