Michigan PTA Calling For Budget Action

Colleges & Universities A-Z University of Michigan
21

<p>They don’t respend their entire endowment every year!</p>

<p>[Financial</a> endowment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_endowment]Financial”>Financial endowment - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>“The total value of an institution’s investments is referred to as the institution’s endowment.”</p>

<p>Your Link: [U-M</a> Budget Update - University Budget - Understanding the Budget](<a href=“http://www.vpcomm.umich.edu/budget/understanding.html]U-M”>http://www.vpcomm.umich.edu/budget/understanding.html)</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The university could chose to implement a semester system where a spring-summer term would be impossible. They however still have to maintain the buildings, run them, pay professors, conduct administrative tasks, etc. If they’re taking less from IS students during this term they are still going to profit better than if they made it unavailable. If they charged the same amount for IS students as they did for OOS students for the spring-summer term, VERY few IS students would take one.</p></li>
<li><p>Since the need of the OOS students is higher, they should be getting more still. I don’t have any statistics on aid given out to IS vs OOS students so I can’t incorporate it.</p></li>
<li><p>If the university is going to offer the SGUS and EGL programs, they can’t complain that they have to accept less money from IS students. More undergrads are from IS, so many grad students from those programs will be IS. I know those are only for Engineering, but if there’s not a similar thing from the other colleges I still can’t tell what percentage are IS vs. OOS. I think they should take whoever they want for grad school though, and to my knowledge they do. If you have statistics that show that they favor instate students please show me. Or if you have legitimate reasons to believe they do, again, please show me.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>On selectivity, the lower the acceptance rate, the better people conceive the university is, and the stronger the applicant pool. Schools like Harvard do this. Even if this is not Michigan’s aim, it still helps them. Furthermore, even if the average test scores from IS students is lower than for OOS, there are still many who are at the same caliber and higher than the average OOS student, and if they had to pay the same amount to go to Michigan as they would to go to a comparable school, they would go to that comparable school instead.</p>

22

<p>Do you even understand what I am saying? I was pointing out the flaws of your calculations. You didn’t take a lot of factors that goes against your position into account.</p>

<ol>
<li>Spring/summer term: IS student still get reduced tuition during spring/summer and therefore the difference should be taken into account in your denominator</li>
<li>Grad student discount: IS student get reduced tuition and therefore the difference should be taken into account in your denominator</li>
<li>Financial Aid: IS student finaid cost the university more than OOS and the difference should be taken into account in your denominator</li>
</ol>

<p>These 3 factors would significantly reduce your 81% coverage number.</p>

<p>Meaning here, you ratio should be
320,000,000/[(17374 - 5735)<em>(26083)</em>(.65)*2 +spring/summer tuition difference + grad student tuition differnce + financial aid discrepancy]</p>

<p>What does this have to do with endowment? I dont even understand why endowment come into this argument.</p>

23

<p>Endowment is a different argument. Your figure that for every $100 spent by the university only $7 comes from the state is false. Your link shows that it’s 24%. </p>

<p>My argument back for financial aid is about why it if it were taken into account, it would increase the percentage, not decrease. </p>

<p>My argument about the Grad student discount is a combo of it can’t be taken into account because I don’t have numbers on it, and that any issue is at the fault of the university itself and not of the state’s influence. I realize that it should optimally be reflected in the number, but it can’t be and all its influence would show is that the university is admitting in a way that it against its own interests and is not influenced by the state.</p>

<p>My argument about the spring/summer terms is that there’s nothing they can reasonably do about it. Again, I realize that optimally it should be included in the number, but it can’t be, and even if it could, it wouldn’t be in the college’s interest to change that number.</p>

<p>Altogether, I’m really not trying to argue my number as much as I am defending the status quo, and using my number to illustrate that the status quo is reasonable.</p>

24

<p>FWIW, they haven’t actually dropped it yet. According to this article from earlier, it may stay funded by some other means.</p>

<p>[The</a> State News : House votes to cut Michigan Promise Scholarship, reinstate with alternative funds](<a href=“http://statenews.com/index.php/article/2009/09/house_votes_to_cut_michigan_promise_scholarship_reinstate_with_alternative_funds]The”>House votes to cut Michigan Promise Scholarship, reinstate with alternative funds - The State News)</p>

25

<p>“Altogether, I’m really not trying to argue my number as much as I am defending the status quo, and using my number to illustrate that the status quo is reasonable.”</p>

<p>You are doing the exact opposite. </p>

<p>“My argument about the spring/summer terms is that there’s nothing they can reasonably do about it. Again, I realize that optimally it should be included in the number, but it can’t be, and even if it could, it wouldn’t be in the college’s interest to change that number.”
This is not about what the college can do about it. This is about your ratio. This factor goes against your position and should be taken into account.</p>

<p>“My argument about the Grad student discount is a combo of it can’t be taken into account because I don’t have numbers on it, and that any issue is at the fault of the university itself and not of the state’s influence. I realize that it should optimally be reflected in the number, but it can’t be and all its influence would show is that the university is admitting in a way that it against its own interests and is not influenced by the state.”
Again, I dont care about the exact number. I am just saying you need to take this into account in your ratio because this is a factor that negatively affect the justification of your position in a huge way.</p>

<p>“My argument back for financial aid is about why it if it were taken into account, it would increase the percentage, not decrease.”
It would decrease. Because the state is paying more per IS student vs per OOS student in financial aid. Think about how negative cashflow affects your ratio intuitively and you’ll understand why.</p>

26

<p>“It would decrease. Because the state is paying more per IS student vs per OOS student in financial aid.”</p>

<p>What statistics do you have to show that? The only thing you said didn’t prove it one way or the other, but leads me to believe that more would be spent per OOS student than IS student. The reason being that 80% of the need would likely be more per OOS student than 100% would be for IS student, because the COA for the OOS student is significantly higher. </p>

<p>I’ll refine my 81% number to be: What percentage of the theoretical loss by not charging the OOS tuition to IS students the university receives from the state, for an average (meaning median) IS undergraduate student.</p>

<p>Does it now back up my argument that the status quo is reasonable, in conjunction with everything I’ve stated before about the university’s options regarding scheduling of semesters, which students take how many credits, and the selectivity? I think so.</p>

27

<p>“I’ll refine my 81% number to be: What percentage of the theoretical loss by not charging the OOS tuition to IS students the university receives from the state, for an average (meaning median) IS undergraduate student.”</p>

<p>no because

  1. 320MM is not only for undergraduate purposes, so you cant assume that all the moeny go to undergrad. You either have to reduce this number (you numerator) or take graduate students into account</p>

<ol>
<li>Spring/Summer still falls under your premise and would reduce your percentage.</li>
</ol>

28

<p>The spring/summer does not fall under the category anymore due to the average meaning median, unless you are arguing that more then 50% of IS students take classes during the spring/summer terms. Since I turned it into a proportion of the individual student’s subsidization, instead of the students’ subsidization as a whole, and the student with the median theoretical loss will not have losses from spring/summer terms, it no longer applies. </p>

<p>When you say that the university can take whatever grad students it wants, from wherever they want them (which I am saying) you can then assume the entire 320Mil is for undergraduates.</p>

29

<p>“When you say that the university can take whatever grad students it wants, from wherever they want them (which I am saying) you can then assume the entire 320Mil is for undergraduates.”</p>

<p>No because grad school activities fall under general fund and the general fund includes the 320MM from the state.</p>

<p>“The spring/summer does not fall under the category anymore due to the average meaning median, unless you are arguing that more then 50% of IS students take classes during the spring/summer terms. Since I turned it into a proportion of the individual student’s subsidization, instead of the students’ subsidization as a whole, and the student with the median theoretical loss will not have losses from spring/summer terms, it no longer applies.”</p>

<p>No because you numerator is still 320MM. You cant just say oh the 320 MM only applies to fall and winter term. Your 81% is still calculated by dividing the total amount of state funding by the difference between OOS and IS. There is a difference between OOS and IS in the spring/summer term and thus should be applied…</p>

<p>Anyway this is getting boring… but it’s still better than Techcomm homework</p>

30

<p>“No because you numerator is still 320MM. You cant just say oh the 320 MM only applies to fall and winter term. Your 81% is still calculated by dividing the total amount of state funding by the difference between OOS and IS. There is a difference between OOS and IS in the spring/summer term and thus should be applied.”</p>

<p>I don’t think you understood what I said… Read it again. The use of median does make it say it only applies to the fall and winter term as long as the median student does not take spring/summer classes.</p>

<p>“No because grad school activities fall under general fund and the general fund includes the 320MM from the state.”</p>

<p>Let me try and word it differently… I say the entire 320Mil is for undergraduates, and that the status quo is not acceptable for grad school, and that the university should change it’s actions in regards to either grad school admissions or tuitions.</p>

31

<p>“Let me try and word it differently… I say the entire 320Mil is for undergraduates”</p>

<p>I understand what you are saying. I understand all your arguments. But this is not true. You can’t change facts just because it fits your arguments and helps your positions. The fact is the 320MM applies to the university as a whole. You cant change the fact because by changing this fact it favors your status quo argument</p>

32

<p>

I’m not sure why it seems everyone on here has this idea, but no, the board of regents does not have the authority to privatize the university.</p>

33

<p>Okay, folks, I have enjoyed your reasoning on the side topic and will chew on your arguments a spell.</p>

<p>In the MEAN TIME, yes Yosef, this thread was about taking action to at the very least have the EXISTING promise scholarships funded as promised. ACT NOW to contact you legislator BECAUSE they did not resolve the issue last night, only issued a 30 day continuance budget. That means it can still be in or out.
Here are the links to contact your legislators:</p>

<p>MAKE YOUR CALL NOW, PLEASE! </p>

<p>Phone numbers:</p>

<p>Michigan House [house.mi.gov</a> - Representatives](<a href=“http://house.michigan.gov/replist.asp]house.mi.gov”>http://house.michigan.gov/replist.asp)</p>

<p>Michigan Senate [Welcome</a> to the Michigan Senate](<a href=“http://senate.michigan.gov/]Welcome”>http://senate.michigan.gov/)</p>

<p>Governor Granholm [SOM</a> - Government Address and Phone Directory](<a href=“http://www.michigan.gov/som/0,1607,7-192-29701_31713_31714-15554--,00.html]SOM”>SOM - 404 - Page Not Found)</p>

<p>Email:</p>

<p>Michigan House [house.mi.gov</a> - Find a Representative](<a href=“http://house.michigan.gov/find_a_rep.asp]house.mi.gov”>http://house.michigan.gov/find_a_rep.asp)</p>

<p>Michigan Senate [Michigan</a> State Senate - Find Your Senator](<a href=“http://senate.michigan.gov/FindYourSenator/michiganfys.asp?lookup=]Michigan”>http://senate.michigan.gov/FindYourSenator/michiganfys.asp?lookup=)</p>

<p>Governor Granholm [GRANHOLM</a> - Contact the Governor](<a href=“Governor Gretchen Whitmer”>Governor Gretchen Whitmer)</p>

<p>And here’s an update on the budget session from 3 a.m.:</p>

<p>LAST UPDATED: 3:20 a.m. Oct. 1</p>

<p>Michigan lawmakers adopted a continuation budget to end the state’s second shutdown in three years.</p>

<p>Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm signed the 30-day budget early Thursday morning. The move ends temporary worker layoffs and office closures from a near two-hour state shutdown after lawmakers in Lansing could not agree on a budget by midnight, according to the Detroit Free Press.</p>

<p>The continuation budget will fund Michigan’s government and public schools. Lawmakers will use that time to agree upon whether to “cut spending, use federal stimulus money or raise taxes” in the permanent state budget that seeks to erase a $2.8-billion shortfall for the 2009-10 fiscal year, which started today.</p>

<p>Michigan Promise Grant scholarships for more than 90,000 college students seem “nearly certain” for cuts, according to the New York Times. But Granholm said in a prepared statement that she “has rejected Senate Republican cuts that eliminate college scholarships for over 50,000 Michigan students.”</p>

<p>According to the Free Press, lawmakers approved most of a permanent state budget that would offset the deficit “with no tax increases and substantial cuts in spending, from schools to Medicaid and mental health programs, aid to cities, environmental programs and government operations – including the Legislature.”</p>

<p>The state House and Senate scrambled to address the shortfall, which includes more than $1 billion in cuts, late Wednesday and early Thursday. A bill that would have reduced state aid by $218 per pupil to schools was shot down late Wednesday by a 2-106 vote.</p>

<p>The state Senate adjourned until 12:15 a.m. without sending an interim budget to Granholm, who notified around 51,000 state employees they would be temporarily laid off at 12:01 a.m. if no budget was set, the Free Press reported.</p>

34

<p>Kk, Michigan representative coming to our school tomorrow…I’m gonna ask him about what’s going on with the Promise. Any specific questions/comments anyone wants me to ask him tomorrow?</p>

35

<p>What he intends to do for a living when all the infuriated students and their parents don’t come out to vote for him next time around if he doesn’t vote the right way? :P</p>

36

<p>Lol, I’d actually ask that but my teacher would be probably get a little ticked (don’t really care about putting the politician the spot though o<em>O) o</em>o</p>

37

<p>tell him he’s doing the right thing and practicing fiscal responsibility. A simple concept that a lot of politician (mostly liberals) do not understand. You don’t spend money you dont have. Even a 13 year old knows that.</p>