<p>The problem with some Wolverines is basically summed up is this sentence "Just think of it this way - you can brag about where you went to college if you go to Michigan"
Um.. alright, why should you pick a college based on what other people will think?
Fit is what matters.
Once you graduate it won't make a BIT of difference, ESPECIALLY if you are planning on grad school. Even if you aren't though, it's not going to matter. Just do YOUR best, WHEREVER you go. For truly intelligent, brilliant people who are capable of performing in the real world, where you attend college won't matter.</p>
<p>Excuse me, but why shouldn't you care what other people think? Don't these "other people" hire you for a job or admit you to grad school? What would look better to employers? A 3.7 from MSU Honors or UM? I think the answer is clear.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Excuse me, but why shouldn't you care what other people think? Don't these "other people" hire you for a job or admit you to grad school? What would look better to employers? A 3.7 from MSU Honors or UM? I think the answer is clear.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Unless you're talking about banking, employers don't care either. After your first job, you'll like an ass for even mentioning your alma mater during an interview. No, never mind, you'd look like an ass mentioning your alma mater during an interview for your first job too. No one cares. Your experience speaks volumes more than your diploma.</p>
<p>Graduate schools don't care where you graduated if you get a 3.5 and a certain standardized test score. They might cut you slack for getting a 3.0 at a place like Harvey Mudd, but they won't that 3.0 over a 3.5 from MSU engineering.</p>
<p>Point: No one cares where you go to school.</p>
<p>DSC,
I was hoping for more specific opinions on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the two ChemE programs (e.g., curriculum, faculty/facilities, career placements, etc). And I was hoping to get more up-to-date, first hand info on U-M’s ChemE program (i.e., I’m more interested to hear from your cousins than your uncles).</p>
<p>But there are so many factual errors in your post #79, I feel obligated to post a reply.</p>
<p>
[quote]
my cousin who majored in ChemEng … went to MSU due to it being a standout program, while UM's program seemed to be more dependent on the rest of the department boosting it up.
[/quote]
All of U-M’s engineering programs are consistently ranked in the top 10 individually. It’s ChemE program has never ranked lower than 12th and highly respected nationally, certainly not riding on the coat-tail of the overall reputation of the engineering school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
UM is best in Mech and Electrical, and anything science related - go MSU…Sciences are better at MSU, Physics is even #2 in the land(behind MIT). The cyclotron is amazing, and boosts that.
[/quote]
Traditional ChemE requires a lot of Math and Chemistry but not Physics. On the other hand, ME and EE students may benefit more from advanced Physics courses. So based on your advice, you should go to MSU for ME and EE.</p>
<p>Btw, MSU’s Physics dept is ranked #29 overall. It’s true that Nuclear Physics is #2 (behind MIT) but the rest of its Physics programs are non-ranked.</p>
<p>And MSU does not have better ranked Science programs. Ranking-wise in engineering and physical sciences, U-M wins hands down in ALL departments. Here’s a list:</p>
<p>< Grad Department > … < U-M > … <msu>
Overall Engineering… U-M(#9) … MSU(#55)
Aerospace … U-M(#4) … MSU(NA)
Biomedical … U-M(#10) … MSU(NA)
Chemical … U-M(#12) … MSU(#47)
Civil … U-M(#7) … MSU(#36)
Computer … U-M(#6) … MSU(#46)
Electrical … U-M(#6) … MSU(#54)
Environment … U-M(#6) … MSU(#38)
Industrial … U-M(#2) … MSU(NA)
Material … U-M(#9) … MSU(#46)
Mechanical … U-M(#5) … MSU(#38)
Nuclear … U-M(#2) … MSU(NA)</msu></p>
<p>Chemistry overall … U-M(#16) … MSU(#36)
Biological overall … U-M(#15) … MSU(#34)
Physics overall … U-M(#13) … MSU(#29)
Math overall … U-M(#7) … MSU(#42)</p>
<p>If I was trying to get a job in Cali with either one of these degrees, I might pay more attention to those rankings, in the Midwest - I value people's experience more, as it is based on real experiences and contact with employers. Employers across the country might lean more on a ranking style system, unlike local companies which are more experience driven.</p>
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Just watch a football game at MSU and listen to the fans if you want to see where my 'inferiority complex' comment comes from.
[/quote]
I know lots of MSU grads and I've never met one with 'inferiority complex' ... may be only in football. Just wait till basketball season...</p>
<p>MightyNick - sure I think the answer is clear too.
You're just going to look like a tool if you keep mentioning your school in interviews...its all about you in the end, not the school</p>
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No, never mind, you'd look like an ass
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</p>
<p>You are one.</p>
<p>
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Point: No one cares where you go to school.
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</p>
<p>Yeah go to MSU and try landing and investment banking job. You're a tool of the highest order.</p>
<p>Are you trying to do investment banking? We were talking about Engineering.</p>
<p>If your only rationalization is something 2% of grads might do(high end), then that is crap reasoning.</p>
<p>Bennis I think you have two fine choices. My company does not differentiate starting salaries for Engineers by the two schools - or any of the schools we recruit nationally. It differentiates from the low end of the salary grade to the higher end of the same salary grade by experience i.e., internship responsibilities, practical experience, research based knowledge. Also keep in mind that UofM is expensive for an OSS and some of the apparent arrogance may very well be how OSS students jusify the cost of their choice. So some of the rant you just have to take with a grain of salt the rest of the ranting is mostly to "stir the pot" which some people feel safe doing in the relative anonymity of the internet. Imagine how the kids at Michigan Tech, also a fine engineering school, feel being in a state with so many choices for engineering that they along with Kettering students are often neglected in the "which school is better" arguments.</p>
<p>GoBlue81 - The need to prove yourself overly much so, and the fear of impending doom - It is very much a trait I see in many many State students/grads.</p>
<p>MightyNick
My cousin graduated MSU, worked 2 years as at investment banker at Sachs, went to Harvard Business and now is a hedge fund manager
Yes, a poor, inferior MSU grad.</p>
<p>yeah, and my friend's dad didn't even go to college and he's making 200K now. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't go to college right? Exceptions always exist. Look, I don't want to waste anymore time arguing about a very respectable college and a clearly inferior college. I don't know even know why you tools started this pointless argument.</p>
<p>I'm going to either UM or MSU too in-state, and after reading this thread I'm leaning towards MSU for physics. MSU seems to have lots of opportunity in undergrad (especially in honors), a great social scene (although Ann Arbor is nothing to complain about), and the #2 nuclear physics program in the world behind only MIT. I guess it depends on your intended major, but at least in nuclear physics I'd choose MSU over UofM from a purely academic standpoint, too. Perhaps UM for grad school in nuclear engineering...MSU has great academics too but UM really dominates in graduate school where academics are probably most important.</p>
<p>Being offered a professorial assistantship and admissions into the honors college, I feel at MSU I'll have lots of opportunity, while at UM I'd just be one of thousands with similar credentials. Sure, UM is overall stronger academically than MSU, but it seems to me that it's more about what you do in college then what your college is ranked. They're both great institutions...go with whichever gives you more opportunities. As far as the students being arrogant at UM...from what I've seen I'd have to agree...but obviously you're going to get all types with UM's student body of 40,000 or so.</p>
<p>ranks at Michigan are all from their own honors college... Who does most of the research? The honors college. There are no statistics that compare UofM non-honors college with that of MSU honors</p>
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ranks at Michigan are all from their own honors college... Who does most of the research? The honors college.
[/quote]
Care to elaborate on this? What ranks? What does U-M's honors college have to do with doing research? Are you familiar with U-M's Undergraduate Research Opportunity Program (UROP)?</p>
<p>Of course I have no "stats" to back this up, but from my experience (living in Ann Arbor), I have found that most professors offer the big potential research opportunities to those in the honor program; those that do THE research are MAINLY those high educated "Ivy League Rejects". I'm not saying that if you're not in the honors college, you won't obtain chances to do research, in fact their are a lot of chances, but the main (potentially big) projects, professors would rather see members from the honors college do. For instance, I have this ultra-smart International friend, honors college, who works directly with a professor in a lab. Yes, he actually works hand-in-hand with his professor (a rare opportunity in the UofM atmosphere). From what I experienced (and through all the college students I have talked with) I believe I can say that comparing statistics between an honors college and a non-honors college through ranking of the whole school in itself is pretty absurd.</p>
<p>I guess in a way I'm saying that joining UM will not make you a big part of its "ranking".</p>
<p>And to even the playing field, here's a direct quote from wikipedia
"In U.S. News also ranks MSU's nuclear physics program second, behind only MIT. Indeed, MSU’s Physics & Astronomy department ranks highly based on the number and impact of publications its faculty publishes."</p>
<p>So is it really correct to say that if you join MSU's physics program you will obtain an excellent education? Not necessarily...</p>
<p>Sry for the use of wikipedia though... not a real valid source I guess but what can I say</p>
<p>So you are saying that UM's engineering rankings are from the honors college, which has nothing to do with the college of engineering...?</p>