<p>I know this won't be a helpful post, but I just wanted to say that at the end of the day they're both fine schools; so while the decision may be very difficult, the good news is you really can't lose no matter which you choose.</p>
<p>I attended U of M, and I loved it there. M go Blue.</p>
<p>Thanks you guys! all your posts have been SO incredibly helpful... Honestly, thank you soo much :)
Liek0806, i was already accepted. Im currently a freshman at ucsd (only been here one quarter), but applied to umich and usc right away for Winter 2005 as a freshmantransfer.</p>
<p>I have one D at USC, and one just accepted to UMich. Both incredible schools. As one person said, you can't go wrong. My advice? As long as you're that close to USC, I'd ask to sit in on a couple classes you'd take(if you can wait until the new semester starts to decide) and see how the campus and classes feel. If you love them/don't, your decision may be easier.</p>
<p>ahem... USC 28 - UM 14? </p>
<p>What a nice problem to have, USC or UMich? If you plan on working in CA after graduation I'd definitely say USC because they have such a strong network and influence. I'd take the advice of the poster above and sit in some classes to see if you like it or not. Goodluck!</p>
<p>MTM, and some people are offended by the notion of USC being presented as a first-rate university when it's not. I remember an SC student once getting carried away and claiming that USC was "...the Stanford of the West." LOL, though to be fair you can probably find mis-steps like that anywhere.</p>
<p>USC does have a huge endowment and gets some Very Large Gifts, which they're using to build facilities and in some cases attract some pretty good faculty. And if you compare financial aid offers and student profiles, they are being very aggressive in trying to buy some high-stat students whereas if you're the more typical student, just pay your money, please...the aid offers show really sharp contrasts between lavish and token or none. </p>
<p>But the academic atmosphere still sucks. As you say about USC, "The ge courses are way easy." You know, you don't find statements like that being made about intro courses as first-rate schools. There's a lot more emphasis on sports and social life at USC than on academics. Shrug. And for some people, that's what they're looking for.</p>
<p>And again, I'll give a blanket exemption to the TV/Film and Music departments for starters. And a special condemnation to the undergrad business program.</p>
<p>TheDad, Could you elaborate a bit more on "a special condemnation to the undergrad business program"?</p>
<p>GoBlue, I've talked to too many non-SC-affiliated hiring types who just roll their eyes over the resumes/interviews they've experienced with the ug business students. I've had the suggestion--which I can't substantiate, though I'd like to get more first-hand information on, preferably from the inside--that ug business is where a lot of the less serious, less ambitious USC students gravitate towards. Take that part with large grain of salt. I have a friend who teaches in the Film school--you'd recognize his credits if not his name--but I can't exactly put this question to him in this manner. Come to think of it, I had a client with an ug business degree from USC...he certainly fit my profile.</p>
<p>so what's been your decision?</p>
<p>I remember an SC student once getting carried away and claiming that USC was "...the Stanford of the West."</p>
<p>Ha ha ha ha ha! :rolleyes:</p>
<p>being offended when somebody says SC is a first-rate school is pathetic.</p>
<p>you wouldnt know the academic atmosphere unless you were a student there. and i took my ge's at uci, not SC. i was bio major my first yr. sports and social life are a part of the SC experience, its part of what makes our school attrctive. we have a lot of both. it keeps our students happy and our alumni proud. </p>
<p>its a fact, that USC has more national merit scholars and students with higher incoming SAT scores than ucla, (<a href="http://www.dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?ID=25321%5B/url%5D">http://www.dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?ID=25321</a>). the avg. transfer gpa for a student transfering to Marshall School is 3.6-3.7 and rising. so SC may have an academic atmosphere, too. with Marshall School being one of the more competitive progrmas at SC, the more ambitious and more serious students tend to gravitate there.</p>
<p>TheDad, Interesting...I've heard a bit about that but rather indirectly. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that freshman are directly admitted to Marshall. At UMich, all students are admitted to Ross in their junior year, and competition is very severe. One has to be highly motivated in the first two years to have a chance.</p>
<p>MTM, I wrote my last post before I read yours. What is the ratio of transfer students (from outside and within) versus direct-admit at Marshall?</p>
<p>Actually, MTM, I know several people who teach or who have taught at USC--and who have taught elsewhere--and there's not a great disparity in their takes. Yeah, I think the people who teach there have a good sense of the academic atmosphere. I also know quite a few people who have done their grad work there after doing undergrad elsewhere and <em>they</em> have a pretty good sense of the on-campus environment.</p>
<p>I've met some very nice people who went to school at USC, most recently yesterday, as a matter of fact. And I know a number of very competent people who went to SC.
In any school of size, you're likely to find a distribution across a spectrum. The point of contention is where the balance lies.</p>
<p>ok i give up. you win.</p>
<p>can you name those teachers?</p>
<p>You keep trying. Nope. There's no need to subject them to a frank and comradely call from President Sample's office. Collectively, they've taught at other schools, both in the West and the Midwest. Their own educations are pretty impressive--since they teach at SC I doubt you would dispute it. </p>
<p>These questions are like Impressionist paintings: I don't pay attention to any one splotch of color, I look at the aggregate picture. SC is by no means a completely wretched institution. It's simply not what some are cracking it up to be. For comps, I don't think it's in the same class as Georgetown or Duke. Maybe NYU. On the west coast, it's no Stanford, Berkeley, or UCLA. I will give Sample credit--looking at the way he's using FinAid to buy high-achieving students--that he's trying. But institutional inertia is hard to change, like making an oil tanker turn.</p>
<p>"...that ug business is where a lot of the less serious, less ambitious USC students gravitate towards"</p>
<p>That comment was made by someone who obviously doesnt know what they are talking about. Well, even if the less serious and less ambitious USC students graviate towards the business program (I am willing to bet money that no proof of that can be given) that does not mean that those are the students who actually complete or are successfull in the program. The business program at USC is among the most competitive majors at the school. Is there a particular reason for me to defend the program? Absolutely not! I was admitted to the program as a transfer student (as well as Haas) but decided to matriculate at UCLA as a BizEcon major instead. USC Busines students compete with UCLA BizEcon students for jobs in Los Angeles. If anything, it would serve in my best interest to promote the BizEcon program at UCLA and make the USC Busines program seem bad. Furthermore, anyone who says that a particular program is bad without giving any evidence should not be considered an expert on the subject. Even if they say "all my friends tell me the program is bad" still does not mean the program is bad. What if that person really has no friends and is just making up fictitious people? Or, what if I just say "well all my friends tell me the program is good"? At the end of the day we are no better off because no one still knows if the program is good or not. All we know is that for some reason, some person feels compelled to disrespect USC and its busines program.</p>
<p>good point</p>
<p>These questions are like Impressionist paintings: I don't pay attention to any one splotch of color, I look at the aggregate picture. SC is by no means a completely wretched institution. It's simply not what some are cracking it up to be. For comps, I don't think it's in the same class as Georgetown or Duke. Maybe NYU. On the west coast, it's no Stanford, Berkeley, or UCLA. I will give Sample credit--looking at the way he's using FinAid to buy high-achieving students--that he's trying. But institutional inertia is hard to change, like making an oil tanker turn.</p>
<p>Give me a break, what exactly are you looking for in an academic institution? Do you base the academic environment on how many students look at the sky with their fingers on their chin using pretentious analogies of impressionist paintings and academic sizing? </p>
<p>The bottomline is, USC churns out successful students. Just because the students don't walk around with sweats and unkept hair doesn't mean the school isn't academically suiting. I have two close friends, one who chose USC over Yale (yes I'm dead serious), Berkeley, UCLA, etc. and another who chose USC over MIT (please don't croak on me), Duke, Berkeley, etc. They both are at Marshall (undergrad Business) and say it is academically challenging. </p>
<p>USC offers a balance of having a great academic life, a chance at a successful future, and most importantly to have some fun. People are far too serious and elitist when it comes to assessing colleges. "Academic environment" means little in the end, want proof? Go ask the multitude of Berkeley grads that want no part of Cal after their graduation - even those that have come out successful.</p>
<p>You see I see college sorta like an Impressionist painting.... maybe a Cezanne? It's not about the sharp angular brushstrokes, rather it's the entire piece that creates the beautiful overall picture.</p>
<p>It's time to put this thread to bed. The discussion of the USC's academic stature has been going on for years on CC. It seems to generate more heat than light. Some will never accept USC as a major academic institution. Others know better.</p>
<p>They are both good schools. I would pick UMich. I am strong advocate of getting out of your comfort zone (in this case, socal) and experiencing something new.</p>