<p>" It's possible that some of the honest families that have higher wages yet got more financial aid than your family did obtained that aid because of difficulties (such as medical related expenses) that their kids don't know about or didn't reveal to you. Most kids don't know lots of details about their parents' finances."</p>
<p>That was a very important point that someone made...and it is true more often than most people realize. There are situations, such as having large medical expenses or a disabled sibling (not all disabilities are visible) or parent, that can lead to greater financial aid. For example some schools will consider medical expenses that are greater than 7.5 % of income in figuring out what a family can afford.</p>
<p>I do sympathize with the original poster. College is very, very expensive. But I am glad you have some choices. A lot of kids don't go to their first choice. I think once you settle in somewhere, you'll be OK.</p>
<p>renix, were you refering to me or the OP? Because I don't ask for sympathy, I only suggest that neither should they....everyone has a hard road even if some are harder than others. Someone like you probably had an even harder road than me, but you aren't here complaining (which is good)....you persevere, I persevere, and so should they.</p>
<p>ttallion - I feel as if you are looking at this the wrong way. If your son sees many students who get better financial aid on about the same income, what does that say? What does it say when you see they are driving newer cars, wearing nicer clothes? Since you know they must have a lower income and little or no savings, to me it says that they are using credit to live this way now, they are in deep trouble now and for years to come. When your family wants to retire, you will not have a giant bunch of bills preventing you.
One issue we have had to deal with, and you have not, is your child having to turn down a school because they did not get the financial aid needed to go to the school. If you just go to each college's area on CC you will see how many students are NOT getting more money because they have a lower EFC. My DD applied to 11 schools - one didn't send the FA package yet(!) but one lower tier state school and one OOS private school were the only ones who came close to meeting need and even then didn't meet the EFC. We are VERY lucky that she loved the one private school better than any of the others. What if she hated it? No choices for her.
When your last child graduates you will be done.<br>
Our spare money had gone into big medical bills, so we borrowed for each child. We are looking at 20 years of parent loan payments for 3 kids - you're looking at being done when your kids finish college.
Anyone who thinks a lower EFC makes things easier, being poor gives you more options, is just plain wrong. I know folks think somehow poorer people are getting something for nothing or getting over while your feel you are getting ripped off, but - boy I wish it were true!</p>
<p>The thing is...we also will have to get loans to pay for both of my sons to go to college. And my kids cannot choose an IVY league school...there is no way we can afford it. They have to choose in state schools and even then for the first son we are looking at about $25,000 and the second son who knows...he will probably not get merit aid because he really has to struggle to keep his grades in the B range. </p>
<p>You are right about some of the families being in debt...I am sure they are and we are not...on purpose. My kids education is so much more important that cars, clothes, and fun.</p>
<p>I know it is hard for everyone...I wish it just weren't so expensive for any of us.</p>
<p>This reminds me of stories back in the 80s about the "welfare queen" -- a woman who lives better just collecting welfare than somebody who works a job. </p>
<p>While it's probably true that most lower class people are not better off for being poor, such cases do exist and it's very frustrating to people in the middle class. </p>
<p>My unscientific impression is that a lot of elite schools do have an "hourglass" structure. They admit a lot of upper class students who can pay most or all of the outrageous tuition; and they admit a few lower class students and give them full rides so that they can pretend they are charitable.</p>
<p>I agree it's very frustrating and demoralizing for people in the middle class. Particularly since colleges promote the fiction that they won't let costs stop people from attending.</p>
<p>The whole welfare queen propaganda is part of the origin of this attitude. It got votes by creating a divide between people who need to wise up and see that the poor, lower middle class and middle class have a whole lot in common. It appeals to all of us to think that we'd have it better if someone else just wasn't getting our share, but it's not the truth. Look at welfare amounts, rents in a welfare area, schools in a high welfare area, yada yada. stinks.
yes, there are welfare ripoffs, white collar ripoffs, FA officers getting kickbacks, halliburton, whitewater and etc.
Does Halliburton or Enron scandal mean every business owner is robbing me? Does a welfare mom who ripped off the system mean all moms should be kicked off, or even that the welfare system is "robbing" me?<br>
I am very tired of politicians of all types hunting votes by blame, stoking up resentments and hate.</p>
<p>The problem with this discussion is in its focus on "elite" or "dream" schools. Admittedly, a handful of talented, hardworking poor children are given free rides to those schools. However, for the vast majority of poor childen in this country, the critical questions are a) can I afford to attend ANY college and b) will I be prepared to succeed academically at ANY college.</p>
<p>I do not mean to in any way downplay the extent of the OP's disappointment. But we need to put his situation in perspective. Within a very broad range, one cannot predict the likelihood of having a better experience at one school than another at the time of admission and acceptance. One might perhaps be able to predict that he would not have a good experience at a particular college--but those colleges were presumably eliminated at the application stage.</p>
<p>So OP's disappointment is in fact a byproduct of an irrational mania that has been created about getting to the "right" school.</p>
<p>What's bad is that I'd get pell grant money if I didn't have a decent job. I do, so I get nothing. My parent's are still on the lower income side so if I were to sit around and do nothing I'd get $$ for it.</p>
<p>I have actually seen the finaid packages of some of my kids friends who attend UCs and have had $0-$500 EFC. With various UCs having a COA of $20-$24k, the packages I saw consisted of about $10-$14k grants/scholarships and the remainder loans & work study. I do not recall any gapping, but it was still a large chunk of loans. Some people on this board have said UCs gave them packages with only $5-$6k loans and perhaps they shrank their actual COA by minimizing things like travel, books, personal, and living expenses?? But it was a decent package, manageable for many, but one would need to be truly committed, as there would loans owing later!</p>
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The whole welfare queen propaganda is part of the origin of this attitude. It got votes by creating a divide between people who need to wise up and see that the poor, lower middle class and middle class have a whole lot in common.
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<p>I agree to a certain extent. To my mind, the primary evil is that colleges are charging outrageous amounts for tuition and engaging in price discrimination in the guise of being charitable.</p>
<p>same here, i also dislike the fact that some colleges will say that they "reduced" their tuition by 5%, yet raise dorm and food prices by 8%...i forgot what college it was must there must be others out there that are doing the same</p>
<p>Haber- the worst part of that scenario is that any grants/scholarships are taxable beyond tuition & a few fees, so many people would be better off if tuiton were higher and living expenses artificially lower, same for tax credits like Hope, only for tuition!</p>
<p>I'm wary of any discussion where posters say they're "middle class." It means very different things to different people, and I've seen many kids post here who feel that they're "middle class" and bemoan the lack of financial aid they've been offered. Then when the facts come out, it turns out their parents are making 120k or 150K or 200k-- and they're just clueless about how the median income family making 47K lives. Or that they're making 3 or 4 times the median.</p>
<p>But to these kids (and maybe their parents), because everyone else in their neighborhood has a nice house, several fairly new cars, and are able to take expensive vacations, they just feel "average." So when they don't get offered any need-based aid, they fail to realize that they're the families whose taxes are going to support the more needy, not the other way around.</p>
<p>Look, we all know that most scholarships are not need-based anymore. They are merit-based. That means most kids getting those dollars have the money to go to "great" colleges. I know many many parents that can afford to send their kids to colleges anywhere and are getting plenty of $$$ for their kids. These kids have worked hard but have had every advantage in getting where they are. The great "B+" kids that hold down jobs and don't have the goodies given to them get screwed. And the lowerclass kids barely have any chance at all to make it. I was told today by one of my friends kids "coach", that I shouldn't have even let my child apply to the "great school" she got into (but we can't afford). Whaz up with that! I'm not even suppose to let my kid try to win the scholarship! I understand how people feel. It's a screwed up system. the cards are stacked up against most the kids.</p>
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To my mind, the primary evil is that colleges are charging outrageous amounts for tuition and engaging in price discrimination in the guise of being charitable.
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<p>I've been trying to figure out why tuition prices are shooting up so fast and I finally think I have an answer. Demand is through the roof! </p>
<p>It is by no means cheap to go to school now, but there is a LOT of aid and loan opportunities available and the number of students enrolling in college is reaching record highs. The schools can't keep up with this demand without major expansion in facilities or raising prices to cool demand. </p>
<p>So... for college prices to decline, I think more schools will have to be built or less people will have to attend. What we have, is a symptom of success, in that some sort of college education is in more peoples' reach than in past times. </p>
<p>More demand at rigid supply = higher prices</p>
<p>"The great "B+" kids that hold down jobs and don't have the goodies given to them get screwed. "</p>
<p>Not true at all. The U.S. is one of the countries in the world with the highest proportion of people who are able to get college educations. Virtually anyone in the U.S. who graduates from h.s. can find a college that will accept them and that they can afford. They may need to start at a local community college, but they can go to college.</p>
<p>It's only recently that people in the U.S. seem to feel entitled to be able to go to any college that would accept them. When I was growing up, most of my classmates went to in-state public colleges, and were glad to do so. The students who went out of state went to nearby states. It was very rare for anyone, no matter how bright, to plan to go to college 3,000 miles away as many students here appear to think they are entitled to.</p>
<p>Frankly, I don't have a lot of sympathy for middle class students whining that they can't afford the BMWs of education. I am middle class. My sons attended the colleges that we could afford, which meant that older S turned down his first choice -- a top out of state public that offered him no $ --for a second tier public that offered him a virtually free ride.</p>
<p>Younger S plans to go to a private college that has given him merit aid, and where he'll have to take out loans to attend. He is turning down an in-state public where he could have gone for free by living at home -- to do this, but isn't whining that he's getting a bad deal. </p>
<p>We feel lucky that we have such choices. Most poor kids, however, don't have such choices and may have to sacrifice to go to community college while living at home, even if they are very bright and hard working. Even they, however, are fortunate compared to most poor people in the world, who aren't even able to get a middle school education.</p>
<p>Most middle income families are not living it up like a lot of people think. Their kids are not driving BMW's, maybe they are if they are kids of people in the upper middle class. The kids from families with low income and no savings can go to certain schools and graduate with no debt. Let just say that going to school is hard on all families from middle and low incomes.</p>