<p>For an interest in math/science/engineering, I second Smith if she'll consider a women's college. The summer prior to my D's senior year, she attended a month-long science and engineering program at Smith to determine two things - would she put a "girls' school" ahead of coed on her LAC list, and was she really a science nerd. No to first question, yes to second. She had a fabulous time there with 100 other like-minded science girls from around the country/world. She really liked Smith and the opportunities available there and the bohemian-like town of Northampton. She would have attended if other coed options had not come through. The program is available for 9th-12th grade girls (the older girls have more freedom regarding curfew and such). If you are interested (since you secretly are hoping for math/science), here's their link: <a href="http://www.smith.edu/summerprograms/ssep/%5B/url%5D">http://www.smith.edu/summerprograms/ssep/</a> .</p>
<p>She doesn't seem too interested in a women's college today, but who knows about tomorrow? Personally, I think Smith sounds great, esp. after reading such glowing reviews from TheDad and Mini. This summer she's going to German camp. Next summer? I've asked her to think about looking for a science prog.--yes, it could give her an idea of whether or not she is truly a science nerd. I think the Smith program sounds very cool. She may also apply again to UCCosmos, (though they rejected her a last year :( ).</p>
<p>May I offer you two things to consider with regard to Middlebury?</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Remember it's strangly competitive (like, why are we paying $43K a year for a non-famous school?) My daughter applied RD and was waitlisted. She had a 3.85 with ten APs (scoring 4/5 on the five tests she's already taken), a 1490 SAT, 770/730/750 on SATIII tests, varsity/club swimmer, violinist, sympathy vote because of mortally ill father, very pretty girl, from LA, interviewer told her she'd get in.</p></li>
<li><p>Apply ED if that's where you want. But be sure your D likes winter.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>"Remember it's strangly competitive (like, why are we paying $43K a year for a non-famous school?)"</p>
<p>Middlebury is consistenty ranked as one of the nation's top colleges, and is among a handful (less than 25) of colleges and universities that admit less than 25% of applicants. Students come from all 50 states and 70 foreign countries. I would hardly say that Middlebury is "non-famous." Perhaps it is unknown to those who have no exposure to elite Eastern colleges, but believe me, Middlebury is well known among the educated in Boston, New York, Washington, Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, etc.</p>
<p>I'm surprised no one has mentioned the importance of athletics to student life at Middlebury. Although it's a Division III school, its teams are perennial contenders within its (very competitive) league and, I believe, several teams would be nationally ranked within D-III. Seems to fit with the generally active/outdoorsy vibe of Middlebury's student body and setting. (There are quite a few Sports Illustrated "Faces in the Crowd" plaques in the athletic complex, fwiw!)</p>
<p>Almost without exception, the New England schools are poor admissions "values" relative to the same schools in another part of the country.</p>
<p>Everybody wants "picturesque New England" and the surrounding regions produce such heavy concentrations of "elite college" applicants that the highways to these schools are jammed with rush hour gridlock.</p>
<p>A friend taught at Middlebury as a visiting professor one year...she said that Middlebury would be a horrible fit for my particular D: too remote, too much blue hair & piercings, too much emphasis on athletics. Mileage varies with the individual. Void where prohibited. Include 9 percent tax for residents of Texas. Contraindicated if your are pregnant or suffering from eczema.</p>
<p>Now that's the value of this board. I never would have thought of the blue hair factor. Maybe we should take a look at Vanderbuilt. My D seems to be going through a Southern Belle phase at the moment. This too shall pass . . .</p>
<p>Hey, Arcadia, chill out. These boards ARE opinions. Great that you love Mid. I don't think it's worth the money, that's all. For $43K a year, I want EVERYTHING--Division 1 sports, fun college town, nice mix of kids, great undergrad programs--which Mid simply does not, IMHO, provide. Unless you consider a 45-minute drive to Burlington to see a first-run movie to be a "Fun College Town." That doesn't matter to you? Fine, run with it.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Remember it's strangly competitive (like, why are we paying $43K a year for a non-famous school?)>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Susu:</p>
<p>Arcadia responded specifically to this part of your post not the "I want everything" part. I have no stake whatsoever in Middlebury, but I happen to think that Middlebury is highly selective for reasons that are not in the least strange. Where I sit, in the midst of Harvard, MIT,BU, Tufts, BC, Northeastern, Brandeis, it is not non-famous.</p>
<p>Where I sit, Harvard and MIT would be known (but Harvard students never come back here, so whether they become well-educated is not common knowledge); if they've heard of it, Tufts and Tulane would be interchangeable (and no one would know where they are); Northeastern would get you stares (we have Eastern, Central, and Western, but no Northeastern); Boston University - "Oh, that's in Boston, isn't it?"; Brandeis only at the Jewish Center; and Middlebury? (I think there is a country club/retirement village on the east side of Seattle.) Those who "know" might think of it as a slightly less desirable version of Whitman (which is a very high recommendation out here.) You couldn't wear any of them other than Harvard or MIT around your neck like a piece of jewelry. (It would be like wearing pearls, and people asking you all the time whether they are real.)</p>
<p>We live in a relatively sophisticated state capital. It would be different if you went out to the hinterlands.</p>
<p>Mini:</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>You couldn't wear any of them other than Harvard or MIT around your neck like a piece of jewelry. >></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>And that's precisely my reason for saying that, for people like myself who live a stone's throw from MIT and Harvard, Middlebury is well-regarded. As well, I would not pay $43k merely for a name school, just as I would not pay hundreds of dollars for a Coach bag (using this example, now that you know about Coach bags :)--not only do I not have daughters to pass bags on to, but I maltreat my handbags too much to consider them as investment).</p>
<p>Dear Marite, who asked you? We post our opinions. I posted mine. Then you wanted to post YOUR opinion on MY opinion? Like, who cares? </p>
<p>Let's remember the original poster, a nice lady from SF with a nice daughter who's looking for OPINIONS on Middlebury--a college with which she was obviously not familiar. I think she's got quite a few opinions at this point. </p>
<p>And Mstee: speaking as a mom whose daughter is still in shelllshock from the whole admit/deny process: make sure you understand what your daughter values in a college. This might take a while to verify, since the kid is young and confused and easily influenced by the latest TV show. My daughter valued "the look": the red-brick, black-shutter New England Quad campus, a quietly contemplative atmosphere, etc. Which you can get at a lot of Midwestern colleges (carleton, Grinnell, Kenyon, Northwestern, even Wisconsin and Michigan) that are a bit easier to get into, less geographically isolated, and somewhat more interested in California applicants than is Middlebury.</p>
<p>Susu:</p>
<p>You cared enough to tell Arcadia to chill.</p>
<p>"Dear Marite, Who asked you?"
Wow, someone's taking her D's wl at Middlebury a little hard. As Julie Andrews once said (actually, I'm paraphrasing since I try not to waste too many braincells remembering things Julie Andrews has said), how about a spoonful of sugar to help out with those sour grapes.</p>
<p>Anyhow, it's a very good school. Very similar to Williams in student demographics (well-heeled), without the art history dynamo or the well-known math and astronony departments, but much, much better foreign language departments, and without the holes in the ground. Beautiful, as I remember, too, though it's been a very long time...</p>
<p>Much more interesting, to me at any rate, is Bard. Closer to the Big Apple, too. Honestly, if I were coming to the east coast from California (or Washington ;)), I would want to be a maximum of two hours from Boston, New York, Philly, or DC. Otherwise, you might just as well be in Alaska (not necessarily a bad idea.)</p>
<p>Just returned from Middlebury, where my D was accepted. We did not find the students to be very preppie. They were warm, inviting, funny and very down-to-earth. We attended the accepted students' reception as well, held in a VERY (the most) exclusive part of Houston. I went with trepidation - am a single school teacher. I couldn't have been more surprised. Many very successful alums were there, and were encouraging, giving us advice on FA, and warm and inviting - not a preppie snob in the bunch! My D loved the students. There were a few things we weren't sure about - the rural setting, etc., so we don't yet know if she will go there, plus, their FA package was the worst of the 4 we received. It is highly selective, however, and we think that with my D's stats (really great), it was the fact that she had completed very successfully her first foreign language and was on her second. Middlebury's foreign language program is EXCELLENT! Great reputation for it. Take a trip and check it out. But, remember, we were watching the the Middlebury site with anxiety, and many posted that they were rejected. That said, I heard a couple things that may help. They want to know that you are REALLY interested. Schedule a couple interviews for your daughter for next year at the school. It is unusual for someone to be accepted if they don't have many advocates for them in the admissions office. The more people that like her, the less her stats are as important. The more people in admissions to speak up for her, the better. Off-campus interviews count, but not for as much.</p>
<p>evitajr1, FA seems to be all over the board there. It was our worst (by $10K) out of 15 selective schools, but many kids on the Midd board reported being very happy with their FA. It seemed from a quick run through, that you either got a near full ride or nearly nothing. It maybe the upper middle class thing, where kids with lower EFC do very well.</p>
<p>We also heard that an interview is virtually required to avoid the waitlist.</p>
<p>Yes, the alum Pres (and wife also alum) told my D that he was astonished that she had been accepted without ever having visited or being interviewed on campus. He said she must have been truly exceptional for that to happen! Normally, just an off-campus interview relegates you to the reject pile, and if you are lucky, to the wait list pile. His own son is attending, and they made sure he had the 2 "required" interviews.</p>
<p>Mini wrote: "Honestly, if I were coming to the east coast from California (or Washington ), I would want to be a maximum of two hours from Boston, New York, Philly, or DC. Otherwise, you might just as well be in Alaska (not necessarily a bad idea.)"</p>
<p>Now, now, Mini ;-). I live three hours from Boston and not far from Middlebury and it ain't like Alaska, sorry (been there, have brother who lives there in fact). I do believe that for those who live in more urban areas, when they come to Vermont, they really think we live in japip (spelling?) or the "middle of nowhere" and it is all relative. Honestly, it is a great place to live and plenty to do but just DIFFERENT. We are still in civilization believe it or not ;-). It ain't for everyone but it is not entirely backwoods either. I don't miss the city. And for many kids, the setting of a school like Middlebury is ideal (maybe after living a city life, one might wanna try the country?) though it ain't for everyone. Likewise, my kids grew up in Vermont and like it real fine but for college, wish to experience a contrasting setting and both will be in more urban areas for college. My kids have often said had they not grown up here, they would think that a place like Burlington would be a great place to go to college. Middlebury itself is a small New England town but Burlington is near enough for nights out and so forth. Middlebury College is also appealing to those who enjoy the outdoors.They even have their own ski area (one of my d's favorite race hills in fact). So, kids need to visit and see for themselves. Different things appeal to different people. But I find many cityfolk tend to generalize in such a way as if to think "no way" I'd live in the country, even for four years, and how backwoods the lifestyle is but actually there is a sense of community, as well as culture and the arts, particularly in certain communities including the town of Middlebury or the one in which I live. </p>
<p>MsTee, my daughter originally did not want an all girls school either but did end up liking Smith very much and seriously considered attending though when push came to shove and she had various acceptances in hand, she opted for coed. Still, a girl like yours, who sounds a little like mine, might want to look openly at Smith and see for herself. She may be pleasantly surprised as my D was. </p>
<p>But back to Middlebury....it is very selective and hard to get into. I am very surprised by the purple hair comment...not at all the impression I have of Middlebury. Actually I am thinking it is more likely to see purple hair at Smith (and I did, among other unique "looks"). I would think Middlebury kids like the outdoors...that sort of type. And yes, it is great for languages, among other areas. Just as a point of competitiveness, my D's close friend who is third in this year's class applied to Middlebury ED, got deferred, was since rejected in RD. I realize that just is her class rank but even so. However, last year's sal got in. We also know many skiers from the local ski academy who go to Middlebury each year (feeder). I'd say that Middlebury is on par with schools like Wesleyan or Bowdoin in terms of selectivity....or in other words, a reach for most kids, and not to be counted on.
Susan</p>
<p>PS, while Northampton is a really cool town, it is not exactly big either and while it may be two hours to Boston, it does not truly feel like it is in that much bigger of a place or closer to a city. Middlebury is three hours to Boston and also 45 minutes to Burlington (not a major city but definitely a cool city for college kids and closer to the campus than anything like that to Smith). So, I am not sure in terms of location/setting, that Smith differs all that much to Middlebury.</p>