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<p>No - I admit only that Middlebury is deeper into debt than it should be . . .</p>
<p>Is there any question about facilities? No – Middlebury has $269M in debt, but it also has its new library, science center, humanities center, dorms, dining halls, athletics facilities, etc. Some LACs started later and had to cease their infrastructure upgrades (Williams its library, Amherst its science facilities, etc). Bowdoin did get its new hockey rink in…but it is still only 2nd best facility in NESCAC…</p>
<p>The Bowdoin dorms and dining facilities are all new or completely renovated. Bowdoin’s science facilities are all new or upgraded. Bowdoin’s rink is newer and better than Middlebury’s. And Bowdoin does not need a new library. Some would say that Bowdoin’s just a little bit smarter as to how it spends its money . .</p>
<p>Within 5 minutes of stepping foot on Middlebury’s campus, you’ll see the superiority of Middlebury’s academic, residential, and athletic facilities compared to most other schools, including Bowdoin. The new dorms, athletic buildings, dining halls, and academic buildings are second to none. Middlebury’s per student endowment was diluted when the college chose to increase enrollment from 2,000 students to 2,500 students, and the academic experience is richer because of this expansion. Middlebury and Bowdoin still have per student endowments that are higher than Harvard, Columbia, Brown, Duke, and many other top colleges.</p>
<p>OK, torasee, now you’ve simply admitted that you’re either crazy or have absolutely no judgment whatsoever (I hope that’s not an indication of the quality of Bowdoin’s education). I haven’t spent enough time at Bowdoin recently to judge most of your claims, but to suggest that any rink in Division III (or most in Division I) is even close to Midd’s is just lunacy. Midd got their expansion done before the economic crisis. That means that their facilities are second to none. Most schools will have to expand eventually. Luckily for Midd students, they won’t have to wait.</p>
<p>Before I start a war with torasee, let me just say that I think Bowdoin is a fine institution and any student who went there should be happy to claim it. I’m just partial to Midd. I spent four fantastic years there and I’m always proud to claim it as my alma mater.</p>
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<p>Having done the hockey circuit, I know the new Bowdoin rink to be second to none. It was developed with an awareness of the flaws of the Midd rink - like the fact that it’s kind of sterile and definitely sound deadening.</p>
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<p>I love it when people create new CC aliases to post ridiculous comments in a thread. Welcome tenfour! For those who are interested in what the Fortune article actually says, see the other thread under the Midd forum or find the link at the Middlebury website.</p>
<p>Material expansion and new constructions always make me a little uncomfortable. I’d like to know more about how much the schools are spending on academic programs, hiring the best faculty, off campus studies,etc. After all I wouldn’t personally benefit from a grand rink or a new science center. To me they would simply be two large buildings on campus.</p>
<p>I agree with bcash. I’m interested in both Bowdoin and Midd, and think they are both amazing schools. But I’m interested in academics. I could care less which of you has the bigger d…, er, rink.</p>
<p>Yesterday I was at a girls lacrosse game and was talking to a dad who asked where S was going to school in the fall. When I said Middlebury, he said… “my wife is an alum! She loved the school and she has much deeper memories and long-lasting relationships from her college than I ever had.” I asked where he went to undergrad, and he said, “Harvard.”</p>
<p>So… when we say neither bowdoin or midd can compete with the big name ivies and top universities (which I don’t know exactly to what we’re referring unless you’re talking sports), I think the question is more akin to, “what kind of classroom/educational experience are you looking for.” We took the point of view that there are always the Ivies for Grad/Med/Law school because, frankly, you’ll be treated better as a graduate student than an undergrad at some Ivies and big name U’s. (And S was rejected from the only Ivy he even cared to apply).</p>
<p>Lastly, just some anecdotal references. The Harvard Dad originally said his daughter didn’t want to look at Midd because it was her Mother’s school. However, she felt overwhelmed by Harvards size and loved Middlebury. She is only a junior, but will apply to Middlebury, Bowdoin, Williams and a few more. No Ivies among them. And Midd rises to the top like cream at every school she sees.</p>
<p>Another Dad who is a Dartmouth grad, couldn’t get his daughter to even consider applying to Dartmouth UNLESS she hadn’t gotten into Middlebury ED, but she did and is happy as a clam. </p>
<p>Son was rejected from Johns Hopkins, but the more I got to know about the school, I realized it would have never been a good fit anyway. What did he love most about his visit at Midd? It was a thursday night and the library had tons of kids working and studying together. When he visited classes, there were lots of spirited discussions and the kids seems genuinely engaged in what was going around them (and there were about 20 kids in the class). Not sure that’s the situation at HArvard until you are farther up the food chain. So… it all depends on what kind of undergrad experience youre looking for. And as has been said, you can’t go wrong with Bowdoin or Midd. And I would consider your major. Harvard Dad said that most of his friends who went into Academia are teaching at Midd… especially those in environmental studies where Midd is second to no one, including Ivies and big name U’s.</p>
<p>For kids at S’s HS… Bowdoin can seem a little like Old Home week cause lots of kids get in and go there. Midd seems to be a little more selective, at least at our school. So… Son really likes being able to learn who he is over the next four years without a bunch of classmates already having him defined. (there’s only one other girl going - two students were waitlisted, two were denied).</p>
<p>Finally, It matters little how good or big your rink is if you’re not winning. So… If you’re a soccer, hockey or lacrosse fan (men or womens), choose Midd. If you like tennis (men or women) or field hockey… Bowdoin is better. Football between the two is almost a wash. :)</p>
<p>But if you REALLY consider winning sports teams … Amherst pretty much scores best across the board, HOWEVER… from what I hear Amherst does not have the cross-cultural friendships (Scholar Athletes vs Scholars) that I understand Bowdoin and Midd to have. And at small schools, I think it’s important to have as many friends with differing points of view as possible. IMHO, I think that’s what it’s all about.</p>
<p>Bcash, I don’t know what your experience has been or what you’ve heard, but when I was applying with law firms I had many interviewers say to me, “Wow, Middlebury, that’s really hard to get into”. I heard similar stories from friends in finance and architecture. </p>
<p>Bcash and redandtheblack, the reason we are discussing things like rink size is that these two schools are so similar that the only way to differentiate the two is to discuss these minor details. Sure, Midd has a better language and international program. Sure, Midd’s environmental program is perhaps the best in the country. Sure, Midd is closer to great skiing and has top notch facilities. Sure Midd has a larger alumni network. Sure Midd is widely considered to have the number two athletic program in all of Division III and has won more National Championships than any other NESCAC school, but Bowdoin has that cute little name that is sure to be mispronounced for years to come. ;)</p>
<p>All kidding aside, whichever school you choose is going to be great. You’ll be happy at either. The schools are simply too similar for us to make the decision for you. As everyone always point out here, it’s about fit. If you could be successful attending Bowdoin, you could be successful attending Middlebury. If you could be happy attending Middlebury, you could be happy attending Bowdoin. Choose the one that gets you the most excited.</p>
<p>The pronunciation thing is true. When I first started the college search process I asked a friend who went to Yale about small LACs. She mentioned Bowdoin, Carleton, Hamilton, Colgate, Wesleyan. And I later found out that she pronounced both Bowdoin and Carleton wrong.</p>
<p>Mispronouncing Bowdoin, I get. Carleton? It’s about as phonetic as they come!</p>
<p>Or maybe Carleton can be pronounced in different ways? I watched some videos on Carleton websites and the kids there say “Carlton”, but my friend said some thing like “Carleyton”…?</p>
<p>One more thing bcash, Middlebury is one of five schools (I think there are only four others) in the nation to which 60% or more of the alums give donations. That’s a pretty strong indication of satisfaction.</p>
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<p>As someone who has spent a lot of time in advancement, that is extremely good for alumni. I wonder how it will go this year. When I googled, it seems a lot of schools are seeing all time lows in alumni support. :(</p>
<p>Statistically, I had seen a study that a vast majority of cross admits pick Middlebury over Bowdoin. (don’t remember the link)</p>
<p>I am relieved my son picked Bowdoin over Middlebury, 'cause now the family will have countless more opportunities to see at play… To wit, if you live in the Boston area, Bowdoin is sooo much closer.</p>