My daughter is a rising senior who is looking at 2 of these 3 options for ED1/2. She is interested in Political Science/Economics/International Relations, but also wants to actively engage in Theater in college. She is not sports oriented/outdoorsy at all. Has lived all her life in N.CA all her life (never experienced snow/cold weather).
Daughter is interested in applying to Middlebury (ED), she looked at the IPE major and Midd and is excited about that major. For me, though, the remoteness of Middlebury and the fact Vermont winters are going to be significantly hasher makes Middlebury the least interesting of the 3 options for my daughter. It is also not clear whether my daughter will fit into the outdoorsy/preppy environment at Middlebury. I am trying to direct her strongly at Wes/Vassar for ED1/2.
How does Middlebury compare to Vassar/Wes for the majors I listed above ? Middlebury seems to have excellent networks for internships/jobs anecdotally. How do Vassar/Wes fare in that area ?
We visited Vassar last summer. Both she and I absolutely loved Vassar (the college had this creative/artsy vibe, the students were very friendly, it just felt perfect). We are planning to visit Wesleyan this summer. She wants to visit Middlebury as well (flights to BTV from the west coast are expensive, and timings not favorable).
Wesleyan has a very rigorous History/Economics/Government interdisciplinary program called, the College of Social Studies (CSS). It’s been around longer than anyone can remember and was its signature program for many years. It’s campus is a little less prepossessing than Vassar’s which was, after all, meant to suggest a “female version of Yale.” Wesleyan’s deliberately melts into the surrounding town with the main playing field serving the unusual role of physical as well as community center.
Middlebury has a very pretty campus, but, you’re right; you have to imagine all of that limestone against a snowy background, not the long, luminous, greenswards against which you’ll be viewing them in a few weeks. I’ve heard the same thing anecdotally about the number of internships. A recent linkedin search revealed that a lot of them are in overseas offices, languages being one of Middlebury’s many strengths.
Academically, all three of these schools would be excellent for the your daughter’s interests. For economics specifically, information with respect to faculty publishing – and, by inference, department strength – can be found in this analysis: https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.uslacecon.html.
Among the nine NESCAC LACs for which U.S. News includes the data, Middlebury places 5th in early career salary. Wesleyan places 7th in this rarefied group. This information does not appear for Vassar.
As opinion, I’d suggest Vassar for your daughter from the tone of what you’ve posted, with Wesleyan as a very close second. However, she has yet to visit Wesleyan.
Your daughter may, of course, continue to consider additional options. Kenyon, suggested above, could make a great choice for political science as well as theatre, for example. With respect to the study of government and public policy specifically, she may also want to research schools for those that offer term-length programs in D.C.
The winter weather at Vassar won’t necessarily be all that much better than the winter weather at Middlebury. The usclimatedata.com site shows more Jan-Feb precipitation in Poughkeepsie than in Burlington VT. The average Jan-Feb highs and lows are a few degrees warmer in Pouhgkeepsie, but not much.
The climate differences between either college and NoCal are much greater than the climate difference between these two colleges. Ditto for central CT, even.
Though I personally like that colder temperatures can create a reliably snowy winter atmosphere, I’d place Middlebury in a different climate category from both Middletown and Poughkeepsie:
If you like a creative/arty vibe, then Wesleyan is likely to be a better fit than Midd. Think Josh Wheedon and Lin-Manuel Miranda. Note also that you can make day trips into NYC from both Vassar and Wesleyan (this is especially convenient at Vassar, since Poughkeepsie is at the far end of the MTA Metro-North line).
This is subjective, but Middlebury, along with Williams, would arguably be at the isolated, athletic, outdoorsy end of the New England-Northern NY LAC spectrum. Vassar and Wesleyan would arguably be located at the artsy, sophisticated, urban-oriented end of the spectrum.
While Poughkeepsie receives more rainfall than Middlebury, the latter seems to get more than twice the snow. and the Jan lows are about 7 degrees colder. Given the location much further up north, winter may start sooner and end later. The extra snow and colder temperatures will be very welcome for skiers (but my daughter has never skiied).
It is true, anywhere in the northeast is going to be an adjustment for her.
I really think it’s important (if possible) to visit cold schools in the winter if you’re not used to the weather. A good friend of ours who grew up in Chicago still found Middlebury winters too grey and cold and is transferring to a school that’s warmer.
The climate differences between either college and NoCal are much greater than the climate difference between these two colleges. Ditto for central CT, even.
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I think this is exactly right. I’d make decisions among these 3 schools based on the other factors discussed here, not on the weather. I went to Wesleyan and currently live somewhat south of there, just north of NYC. Wesleyan gets plenty of winter.
I had several friends who did CSS and I took a CSS class. Fantastic program.
Visit all three and let her decide. Approach all with an open mind. Most people can tell within 10 minutes whether they can see themselves spending four years in a place.
The National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics ranks colleges annually by overall athletic success across all NCAA sports. For 2017-2018, the national NCAA Division III rankings included the following:
Three great choices! I do not think your daughter can go wrong at any of the three in her intended areas of study. It really can come down to environment/vibe and her “gut feeling.”
All three are similar enough that they were among my son’s final five contenders for an ED application. He ended up going with Williams, but I think he would have been equally happy at any of the three your daughter is considering. The benefits of attending a selective small college will be part of the experience at any of them, and classes/ professors/ students all will be superb.
Slight cultural/environmental/vibe differences among them exist, and I agree with the generalizations made by posters above, but these differences are not gigantic and there will be a variety of individuals at each school. (E.g., Like Midd, Williams has also been called outdoorsy and preppy, but I was not sporty/outdoorsy/preppy when I attended, and I found plenty of like-minded friends- and differently diverse friends, too! I loved college.). Really, the cultural differences are a matter of degree. All types of personalities exist at all three schools- except all the kids are smart and studious!
As far as weather- the northeast is the northeast! It will be cold and snowy at all three schools. Yes, Middlebury is more remote- and gorgeous.
Thanks everyone for the responses. The pointers to CSS@Wes were very helpful, exactly the kind of program that my daughter is interested in (we missed it when looking at the list of majors at Wes). Purchasing tickets to visit both Wes and Middlebury. I’ll stay out of it and let my daughter decide.
Middlebury is cold but fantastic in so many ways. But I mean it is cold cold. This is based on first hand experience. I don’t know Poughkeepsie weather but it might have more snow but it’s not midd cold. Wes sounds like it’s a great fit. It is very funky but boy are the kids smart. Good luck and enjoy the trip.
Three of my favorite schools encountered on the journey with two kids now at NE LACs. Agree with all the “'can’t go wrong” advice here. I’ll also add that I’m in the camp who believes that, while these schools have their own personalities and are not copies of each other, it tends to get a lot of play vs the reality that all kinds of people can and do find their tribe and get comfortable at pretty much all these places. My D is a rising senior at Wesleyan and pretty much had her pick of these schools. She’s not a politically strident person - at all - and she’d tell you it’s the best decision she ever made; she couldn’t be happier. One thing she and I both liked about Wes is the range of things they’re very good at. Nobody is better at languages than Midd, but Wes is strong there. Midd is great at Econ and sends alot kids to finance careers, but so do Vassar and Wesleyan with similarly strong departments. Vassar is really strong in emglish and writing, and so is Wesleyan. In fact, Wes and Vassar are the two in this grouping that arguably have the most overlap in terms of strong departments; but Wes is arguably stronger than all theirs peers across the board in the hard sciences. On the other end of the spectrum you have Wesleyan’s vaunted film program, and as others mentioned CSS. My D’s roommate last year (and crew mate) is a CSS major. Very rigorous, even for a kid who was educated at St. Andrews. I’m familiar with it so please PM me if you have any questions and I’ll do my best to answer. It’s a tough major but the kids who see it through are very well prepared. We’re from Seattle btw.
I don’t tend to find those “10 schools with the money” helpful. It’s so random. No Harvard or Princeton? Yale not with the money? Stanford? MIT? Amherst is, but not Williams?
If Vassar and Hamilton are worth the money, then Middlebury, Bowdoin and Wesleyan are too.