I am trying to decide between Middlebury College and Williams for ED next year. I am interested in international relations and politics but I would like a range of options to choose from since I’m not entirely sure yet. I also really like schools that have a visible history if you know what I mean. I am a vegetarian -and a very picky one at that- so it is important that the school has a good variety of foods. Also, I would like to see a lot of diversity in all aspects. Another thing that is important to me is extracurricular options. I would like to go someplace where the atmosphere is very lively.
What are some things that make either school stand out from the other? Which school offers more financial aid typically? Where do students typically have more of a connection with their professors? Overall which seems like a better fit for me?
Also on a mildly unrelated note- what would you suggest for a safety school that is similar to both of these but with a higher acceptance rate?
Thank you!
Have you visited both schools? I really think you should before applying ED.
I’m actually planning on visiting them this weekend! I have done a lot of research on both of the schools already so I feel like I’ve visited them both!
There is probably no reason to apply early decision unless you are being recruited for sports.
If food is a priority, Bates and Bowdoin should be on your list. I have eaten at all 4 and Bates and Bowdoin are better. Middlebury very good. Williams average.
All of these schools lack diversity in a relative sense. I am not sure what you expect. Also, between 30 - 35% of students are on varsity sports teams.
As far as liveliness is concerned neither Williams or Middlebury are close to anything lively. They are rural schools. I would not describe the areas as “lively”, especially Williams. Middlebury is close enough to Burlington though, which is nice.
Bates and Bowdoin are close to Portland, Maine and other Maine attractions and in well populated areas. Portland is great place for students to visit. Funky and edgy.
Also, It might help us to know your GPA, scores etc. (so far) in order to offer additional input as to what schools might be similar but with a more safe admissions chance (as well as financial need if any)
If you are willing to consider California, take a look at Pomona and Claremont McKenna for Politics and IR.
Regarding food, my D is vegetarian and says the vegetarian and vegan options at the 5C’s are very good. One of the benefits of the consortium is that your meal plan entitles you to eat at any of 7 dining halls. You can see a sample of a week’s menus here. https://aspc.pomona.edu/menu/. Also the different dining rooms essentially compete with each other for “swipes.” As with many colleges, the dining services contract with outside companies. I believe CMC and Pitzer use Café Bon Appetit and the others use Sodexo. But the on-campus competition hopefully leads to better food choices.
@lr4550 - I haven’t taken the SAT’s yet but I scored in the 95th percentile on the PSATs. My GPA is close to a 4.0 (I say that because my school doesn’t calculate unweighted, and I know I have had all a’s except for a couple a-'s) Financially, I will need a LOT of help since my family’s income is less than 40,000.
Okay, that’s good to know. Be aware that Williams is a “Questbridge” participant and you might want to check them out if you aren’t already familiar with the program: http://www.questbridge.org/about-questbridge/mission-a-vision in case you think pursuing a path through Questbridge looks interesting.
Middlebury isn’t one of the Questbridge partner schools but does its own recruiting through the “Posse” program which is much more confined to specific regional areas: https://www.possefoundation.org/about-posse
Both Williams and Middlebury are need blind and have excellent financial aid so if you get in you should receive generous packages. So many other schools come to mind that are of a similar vibe/type, particularly Bates and Bowdoin in New England. If you are willing to look beyond the northeast a ton of other options open up as well. If you are female do consider the women’s schools such as Mt Holyoke, Wellesely, Bryn Mawr, Smiths, Scripps… fantastic schools with excellent aid.
Must be in New England? Ohio, PA, upstate NY and areas a bit further out have some “similar” LACs that are less difficult to be accepted to.
St. Michael’s College might be a safety, if you like Vermont. It’s a small, not as selective LAC that’s closer to Burlington, so there are things to do at night. You would likely get a merit scholarship there, though it may not be a full ride. Tufts isn’t a safety, but it’s another one to consider, if ED doesn’t work out. It’s close to Boston and great for IR. If you’re a woman, I’ve heard Smith has great vegetarian food, and I believe you’d have access to UMass Amherst’s dining halls, which are excellent.
I don’t know the answers to your questions (I visited Middlebury and decided it wasn’t for me, and I didn’t consider Williams). But I don’t think you’d have trouble connecting with your professors at either. Both boast small class sizes, which means that there’s the possibility for individual attention, especially if you go to office hours.
I would also maybe reconsider ED – if you’re not sure yet and you need a lot of financial aid, it may be better to compare packages. I doubt ED would get you much of a boost at either school.
@OHMomof2 I’m mainly looking in new england, PA and NY
To the excellent recommendations given thus far, I would add Amherst, For a safety, maybe Muhlenberg, but I don’t know how they are FA-wise.
Hi OP, it is a good thing you are getting an early start. It is also great that you are starting to define what you are looking for in a school.
I would suggest that instead of “zeroing in” on 2 schools, develop a strategy. For example, run a few net price calculators. Will you get more aid in merit, or as I suspect, at a need-based fin aid school? Both Williams and Middlebury are among the most generous LACs but as already pointed out, you may want to cast a wide net.
Questbridge has a pre-college program which you could apply to now, as a junior. It is extremely informative if you can attend their admissions conferences.
If you are a New York resident, look into HEOP.
I am glad that you are asking about safety schools. In order for other posters to be helpful, you can post your stats and state. And if you are female and interested in a women’s college. Just remember that in order to be a safety, you have to be able to afford it – not just to get accepted. AND it should be somewhere you are happy about attending.
There are lots of very experienced parents / counselors on this website who have helped my family tremendously. I hope you will take advantage, too.
Final thought. You might want to make food a later criteria, not a beginning one. Like, a year from now, you are happily deciding between your top three – all affordable – choices and food becomes the deciding factor. Just a thought to consider. A lively atmosphere is also something to weigh, in terms of how much it factors in at this point in your search.
Best of luck!
Well then, have you considered Skidmore, Hamilton, St. Lawrence (not a religious school, named for the river/area), Hobart-William Smith, Colgate? Franklin & Marshall. Varying levels of need-based aid at these.
Are you female? If so, consider Bryn Mawr, Mt Holyoke, Smith (I think all have excellent need-based aid).
By “lively atmosphere” do you mean on campus or off, or just one or the other/both?
@OHMomof2 I am female, but I’m not really interested in an all-girls school. By lively atmosphere I mean on campus in regards to clubs, and social events.
@momcinco I am actually planning on applying to Questbridge this year I’m just waiting for the application to come out!
I can tell you more about the Williams’ culture (my son is an alumni) but since he didn’t look at Middlebury I can’t make a comparison.
Many colleges in the northeast only offer need-based aid. Ask your parents to run their income figures through the colleges’ net price calculators to get an idea of how much need-based aid you might be eligible for. My guess is that Williams and Middlebury would be much the same. If need-based aid isn’t sufficient, you’ll need to widen your list to colleges that offer merit aid.
All of the selective colleges try hard to assemble a diverse student body, in race, in religion, in family income etc. The rural areas of New England are not particularly diverse, however, so once you get out of the college bubble you will find a more homogeneous culture.
The Williams campus is definitely lively – with clubs, forums, social events, sports events, outdoorsy activities, arts events, performances and entertainment going on every day.
As with most well-endowed LACs, classes are small and professors are nurturing and accessible. One point of distinction are Williams’ tutorials wherein two students study with one professor for an entire semester.
Williams offers majors in political science, political economy and a concentration in global studies. Study abroad is common and the colleges provides a lot of support for summer internships and travel opportunities. It’s fairly easy to double major.
First years are assigned to an “entry” comprised of 20 to 25 students overseen by two (unpaid) Junior Advisors. This makes an instant social group from day one.
My son really liked the food at Williams and the fact that there are 6 dining options is unusual for a small college… Vegetarians, vegans and just healthy eaters are common.
http://dining.williams.edu/hours-venues/
Another point of differentiation at Williams are the world-class art museums on or near campus – again, unusual for a rural college. When you visit this weekend, try to visit the Clark.
As for less selectives in the same general environment, I’d look at Hamilton, Bowdoin (which are both still quite selective), Colby, Skidmore, Conn College, Dickinson. I wouldn’t eliminate the women’s colleges or the midwestern LACs just yet, especially if you need or want merit aid.
OP you are fortunate that experienced posters like momrath are chiming in.
A few misc thoughts:
- I agree, don't rule out women's colleges just yet. Fin aid can be just as good -- but think about it, you have twice the chance of admission :)
- I guess you are not in NY and thus eligible for HEOP.
- If your family's income is below $40 K and you don't have unusual circumstances (own a farm/business, second home, etc), in many cases you would get more in need-based aid from a generous college than merit aid. Williams, for example, did not include loans in our estimate on their net price calculator. Of the LACs theirs was the most generous. Every situation is different so be sure to use your own figures -- and to compare estimates across schools.
- QB has gotten more competitive each year. If you do not make finalist, don't worry. I would caution you however to be really careful about financial aid if you do ED. Run a net price calc with several scenarios (e.g., is a sibling already in or will also attend college? What is a parent gets a raise? etc) There are a lot of stories about ED backfiring.
-Williams does a diversity weekend for potential applicants. Many other schools do as well, to name a few, Pomona, Bowdoin, Amherst, Carleton, Grinnell, Haverford. Some include economic diversity in their scope of potential applicants while others prioritize URMs and/or first generation. These are held usually in fall of senior year.
- If you are fortunate enough to become a QB finalist, come back and let us know! Also think about whether or not to do match, and how to best go about it. As already noted, Williams is a QB partner.
OP, for your own sanity and the sanity of your family, you should realize that the two schools you asked about and many suggested accept students in the top 2-3% and reject 3 - 4 times as many as as they accept.
If your actual SAT or ACT scores don’t exceed the 95th percentile, the main part of your list of schools will have to change. The 95th percentile is about a 2050. This puts you in a different bracket of school than you think.
There is a thread ongoing about a male student deferred from these two schools with above a 2200, which is the 99th percentile. From what I know, the PSAT percentiles are exaggerated.
I find this intriguing. Why are you already trying to decide between two schools ED as a junior? It’s quite early yet. Why these two schools? I will say the old and obvious line that if you really can’t decide between two colleges for early decision you probably shouldn’t apply ED at all, since it’s really designed for students who have a clear first choice. Both Middlebury and Williams are going to be environments where you can develop strong relationships with professors and both meet 100% of financial need. They both also have really old buildings in sleepy historical New England towns, so there’s not much to differentiate them on the two fronts that you set out. Middlebury has excellent language programs since you are interested in international relations. Middlebury has an international politics and economics major; Williams has a global studies program.
I would say at least visit a women’s college or two before you rule them out, because some may be the safer version of what you’re looking for. Lots of the Seven Sisters, especially, have visible histories, delicious food, diversity and lively atmospheres. Some, like Smith, Bryn Mawr, Mount Holyoke and Barnard, are in consortia or affiliated with co-ed colleges. I went to a women’s college in a consortia with a men’s college and a co-ed university and we used to joke that the campus was only a women’s college until 5 pm (when classes ended).
Since women’s colleges are being brought up, I’ll add that Wellesley has incredible financial aid if you can get in. Need-blind admissions, one of the largest endowments for a LAC, 100% need met, and students graduate with $14k or less in loans. However, admissions difficulty is comparable to Middlebury.