<p>Obesmom - The food seemed pretty decent - not gourmet but decent with plenty of choices. We didn't eat at the vegetarian co-op but did stop by and saw some of the plates they were serving and they looked good. My D. really loved the kitchens in the dorms and I did too - she's not much of a cook but being able to throw together a real meal from time to time is a great option.</p>
<p>Carolyn- regarding the U of Oregon. When we started looking Oregon was a strong no in my D's book. Larger then she wanted and she didn't think she wanted Oregon. But after some discussion I strongly suggested she apply. Their app is out pretty early and they have a deal if you apply by a certain date they let you know by Dec 15th. Also if you have a certain gpa and sat score they require no essay and no activity list. So it is fairly painless. She did the app early Oct and heard back from them in less then 3 weeks. It made the whole rest of the process easier knowing that no matter what happened or if she ever finished the rest of her apps she was going to college. And when the acceptance came along with some merit aid she was ready to actually consider it.<br>
When we talked about safety schools I made her consider schools that were outside her set parameters. I let her know that she needed to consider schools that were either bigger or smaller then her ideal size. I also have seen her parameters change over the senior year as she matures.</p>
<p>Mom60 - thanks. I am also worried that she will change and want a bigger school next year at some point. I'd like to see her have at least one larger school in the mix. I will have to have her look at U of Oregon again at some point.</p>
<p>Carolyn--what do you think of Cal State Monterey?</p>
<p>If I was in your shoes, I would firmly nudge her to apply to Oxy with the notion that the alumni connection <em>could</em> be a nice helpful boost into a very good school-- one that may be silly to squander. If an Earlham-level school comes through, she can always select it over Oxy... But if reaches don't work out, she'd have a nice inside track to Oxy. </p>
<p>My close friends' oldest D is a senior this year and has absolutely loooooooved it. She has done incredible studies, International Relations, Languages, internship in China, independent study in China, semester in NYC... now all set up to go into foriegn service with 4 Languages including Chinese; plenty of job options. </p>
<p>How I put a similar thing to my D (when urging her to apply for Smith) was would you rather go to "Safety U" or Smith? Put it that way, and they can sometimes change their minds...;)</p>
<p>Oxy is common App, so no hassle to do one more app.</p>
<p>Does Channel Islands not have residential feel? I had been told it has a gorgeous self-contained-feeling campus but have not investigated it.</p>
<p>Carolyn: I enjoyed your trip reports--I had been waiting for your return. We also found the Earlham students extremely friendly. It is so true that they all volunteer how much they love the school. I think I will have to be a Quaker in my next life--I find so many aspects of the Quaker-founded schools appealing.
When we visited, there was a group of students on that center lawn playing leap frog. They looked so free and happy--a boy with a pony tail and the girls with cargo shorts and funky tops.
Have to agree with you about Richmond. I would not find it too much fun.
Beloit sounds very attractive too.
I have a 13, soon-to-be 14 year old, and I am filing all this info in my mental filing cabinets. (Better save these posts--that mental filing cabinet is getting less dependable every day!)</p>
<p>Mstee, I haven't visited Monterey Bay but have looked at their programs in depth and think it is a great school for someone who wants to really focus in on a certain program. They are unique among the cal states in that their programs are very hands on. </p>
<p>As for Oxy --- we are trying to get D. to at least visit (actually we have to or her grandparents and other relatives will never stop bugging us) BUT I honestly don't think the legacy connections will be enough to get her in there - she is a white girl from Southern California with average stats and Oxy gets tons of applications from kids like her. The legacy connection didn't help my husband 25 plus years ago when he applied there (he had similiar stats to my daughter and was rejected the year after his grandparents made a fairly substantial donation to the school causing much outrage among the family) and Oxy is much more competitive these days. I think "legacy connections" are for the most part vastly over-rated unless your family has a building with their name on it. :)</p>
<p>Carolyn, I think UCSC and Humboldt both fit the need for Calif, slightly quirky and safety. Of the CSUs we visited, Sonoma State was our son's favorite: it was mid-sized, residential with great on campus apartments and smaller classes than many of the larger UCs and Cal states. Although in a relatively small town, San Francisco is close enough for students to get away to. Your comment earlier about last minute changes certainly applied to us. Our current college 2nd year was sure it was CalPoly SLO until a 2nd April visit converted him to UCSD, while our current HS senior was sure it was Earlham for 9 months until this week when he sent in an acceptance to Redlands...sigh...fortunately, I think as long as they have some reasonable choices in their acceptance pile in April (ie. include a couple safeties), the strength of their college experience is much more about what they bring to the college in effort and willingness to participate than in whether it is the perfect choice.</p>
<p>It is so great to see all the Earlham-lovers coming out of the wordwork. Makes me feel even better about having mailed my deposit check to Indiana yesterday.</p>
<p>I agree with Fredo's post, "You know what I love best about your daughter's potential schools? That her dream school ISN'T a Harvard, Yale, etc. ... She's looking for the school that's perfect for her and you are supporting that "dream" all the way....Reading the acceptance threads is wonderful - I'm thrilled for all the kids and their parents. But it IS intimidating to those of us who don't have the kids who get merit scholarships from some of the most elite schools in the country. We're just trying to find the best place for our own unique child and I love how you're following that path!!"</p>
<p>Here in the NYC private school culture it is all about ED to Brown and a few other schools. At a college meeting for 9th (yes 9th!) grade parents a mother asked if she could keep sending her daughter to sleepaway camp cause she loved it so, or would it look bad for colleges that she wasn't building schools in Costa Rica during the summer.</p>
<p>No one can predict the future, and we all want to "make it perfect" for our kids, but I feel a tremendous sense of peace about my son's year-long college quest and ultimate decision. We tried to think outside the box and not get caught up in the frenzy. Applied conservatively. My friends' kids may be heading off to Providence in the fall but they are paying full tuition. Others are experiencing the devastation of applications to only Ivies and rejection from all. We veered off the radar and as a result my son feels the satisfaction of acceptance and merit awards from 6 out of 7. Even better for a kid whose LD made him leave one of those elite private schools a decade ago. And hey, Earlham even made it into the NY Times last week -- nothing like a pie-throwing to warm the heart of a child of the sixties.</p>
<p>Excuse me now.....must email the bookstore and order Earlham t-shirts for the family....</p>
<p>Carolyn </p>
<p>Thank you for your informative reports. I am so glad that you came away with a favorable impression at both Beloit and Earlham. And if I remember correctly, we had pretty decent weather for you that week as well. </p>
<p>Given my personal connection to both Beloit and Earlham, whenever I read or hear comments about either Beloit or Earlham, I always get a bit nervous, hoping that other people will recognize and appreciate the strengths and qualities of these two schools. I was glad to see that you highlighted some of those qualities in your report.</p>
<p>It seems to me that both places tend to attract professors who really concentrate on teaching and who want to forge strong personal and professional relationships with their students. For example, I know that when I was at Beloit, I think every professor gave us a home phone number. While every professor had office hours, the unofficial rule was that as long as a professor was not seeing another student, they were open and willing to talk with you. </p>
<p>Regarding your sense that Beloit is more Midwestern and that Earlham is more East Coast, that is my impression as well. Beloit probably attracts a larger percentage of its students from suburban Chicago than does Earlham; Earlham probably has a higher percentage of students from the Philadelphia and New York areas than does Beloit; the rest of the East Coast is probably pretty evenly split (my guess is that about a quarter of Beloits students hail from the East Coast, while Earlham probably claims a third or more of their students from that region of the country). While I tend to think of Midwesterners as generally more friendly that those raised on the East Coast (call it a Midwestern bias), I think that the Quaker tradition of Earlham really shines through with the initial friendliness one feels with Earlham students. It seems to me that initially, Beloit students may be a little more apprehensive of new faces around campus and take a more wait and see attitude before fully engaging strangers. I think that many Beloit students feel like that they dont want to scare away prospective students with their personal eccentricities (at least that is the way I felt when I was a student). This may be an overgeneralization, but in my experience most Beloit students felt like they were outsiders in high school and take a bit of that outsider attitude with them when they go to Beloit. </p>
<p>Since I am back living in Indiana, when people ask me where I went to college and I tell them Beloit, I tend to get blank stares. In describing Beloit to other Hoosiers, I have just started to tell them that Beloit is a great deal like Earlham both attract politically liberal students; both are located in industrial towns that have seen better days and are on the boarders of adjacent states (though Beloit has a decided RV deficit when compared to Richmond); both schools tend to draw a national student body and draw comparatively fewer students from their home states; the admissions criteria are remarkably similar (in terms of gpa, SAT, and ACT scores of incoming freshman) for the schools; both have excellent study abroad and field school options; neither has historically had a particularly winning football program; both are known to have excellent financial aid; both schools tend to attract students who, below the surface, defy easy classification or characterization; both have wonderful professors who focus on teaching and actively involve students in their research.</p>
<p>As I see it, the unique educational strength of Beloit is their focus on interdisciplinary learning. Traditionally, many classes have been team taught by professors from different departments. In my experience, there were always several points during the semester where I felt a broad connection across the disciplines. My history professor would bring up a point that, in some way, connected to what we were doing in my chemistry class and which reminded me of some point my classics professor just made. And it would all connect in this weird way with what I was doing in my economics class. It was during those almost mystical moments when I would feel like I knew what it meant to be liberally educated. As hokey as it sounds, I still feel my pulse quicken and my spine tingle when I think of those educational moments.</p>
<p>Very interesting post.
My daughter visited Beloit, L&C, Reed, Willamette, U of Portland, and U. of Oregon. The only ones she did not apply to were L&C and Reed.
She is now at Beloit and very happy. I feel as if Earlham would have been a good fit also, but after Beloit, there was not enough time to visit and she was content with Beloit. So far, it has been an excellent choice for her.
I would have gone to Willamette!</p>
<p>One nice thing about Beloit is the easy access to Madison and Chicago. There is daily multiple trip bus service to either the UW Union or downtown Chicago. Makes Beloit a little more connected to some outstanding places for college students to visit.</p>
<p>Barrons, yes, that is a plus with Beloit (although it's two hours by the shuttle bus to Chicago apparently). At Earlham, you have a choice of Indianapolis in an hour or Dayton in a half hour - neither strike me as places a college student would make an effort to hang out in.</p>
<p>Icemaker, I did think about you while we were at Beloit. One other difference that I noticed is that there seemed a greater variety of things to do on campus at Beloit than at Earlham. At Earlham, there were speakers and such, but at Beloit you had a choice between bands playing, movies, weird parties ("come dressed as your favorite monster"), etc. in addition to speakers. Am I correct in thinking that Earlham students are a bit more introspective and Beloit students a bit more into more traditional college socializing?</p>
<p>I think if the Beloit campus was larger and a bit more open, D. would be saying Beloit was her first choice at this point. But, she is saying that she thinks she could be happy at either school and enjoyed hearing your comment about people at Beloit being cautious about scaring away prospies if they opened up too quickly. :)</p>
<p>Asdad, Good to hear your daughter is happy at Beloit. My daughter didn't care for Willamette at all. She did like Lewis & Clark but Mom felt students were a little more "out there" than the other schools. What was the deciding factor for her in terms of picking Beloit?</p>
<p>Hi Carolyn-Thanks for the comprehensive report. I have been "off the board" for a while. I posted some trip reports, etc. last year while my D (a very happy freshman at St. Joseph's University in Philadelphia) was applying. We have talked on the Board about having kids with similar stats that love "all things Japanese." Son and I started out on track with college tours in the fall-then-S got mono right after Christmas-pretty bad case-missed almost a month of school in January-his February was consumed with making up all midterms and missed classwork-then a co-worker of mine became ill and my work hours almost doubled-we are trying to get back on track. We were only able to do 2 visits over spring break-one at Clark University in MA and one at Fairfield U. in CT.</p>
<p>You and I have talked a little about Earlham on the board in the past. I cornered S over the weekend with a "college possibility" list and 3 of the schools you visited are on his list as possibilities. After our fall visits, he said he wanted to be 4 hours or less from home-but now that the college mail is rolling in,he seems open to expanding that so it is either a 4 hour drive OR a 1 to 2 hour plane ride. One thing that he has honed in on is that he only wants to look at schools that have East Asian studies (or something similar) as a major. Earlham, Lake Forest and Beloit all seem to meet this requirement.</p>
<p>He did NOT like Clark-we both found Worcester to be a very depressing, run-down post-industrial city. Although he has a diverse group of friends and is one of the kindest souls you could ever meet, he was turned off by the people at Clark. He kept mentioning a girl on our tour (who seemed very nice) who very excitedly started yelling "Free Tibet" when she saw a Tibetan flag in a dorm room. I pointed out that she was a PROSPECTIVE student just like him-but the place was just too political/out there for him-lots of posters about sexually transmitted disease and such. We are both politically liberal-I think hejust did not like the "in your face" aspects that he saw at Clark.</p>
<p>So-my questions are:
1-Did Beloit and Earlham seem heavily political/fringy? Sounds like it would be a "no" for Earlham based on your report.
2. Were the cities really run-down?</p>
<p>Carolyn, it sounds like your trip was very productive. How fortunate that your daughter came away with schools he liked. Having made substantially the same trip a year ago with a grouchy, exhausted kid who had literally only days to go before having to decide, it was good to see that my impressions were shared by someone with your perspective and the time to take it all in. We had been to several schools already, but when we got to Beloit, both S and I felt it was a pretty campus, but in 3/4 size. By lunchtime S told me to cancel the rest of the trip, he was where he wanted to be. I can't tell you what it was that made him decide on Beloit, but I can tell you what it is that makes me write those tuition checks without regret...he's happy, involved in a myriad of academic pursuits as well as forming and playing in bands, very excited about the entire educational process, loves his classes and profs and finds the student body very friendly (unlike our first impression which was that they were less open, more standoffish than other schools we had seen). What's not to like? Well, the town of Beloit leaves much to be desired but I don't think it makes much difference to him. And to those who say "He turned town **** to go to Beloit?", I reply that he sure did and isn't that great!
I wish everyone's child as much satisfaction with their ultimate choice as my son seems to be with his.</p>
<p>Lalady, I did give your email about Beloit to my daughter a while back. At some point, would it be possible for her to email your son? </p>
<p>Bxian, Good to see you back! I have missed you and wondered where you were. The answers to your questions:</p>
<p>(1) I thought the kids at Earlham were not particularly fringy. They reminded me very much of my own daughter in looks and attitude. In fact, while I was waiting for her in the library, I had the strange experience of thinking she had walked in the door twice because I saw two girls that looked so much like her. I would probably call the kids at Earlham granola-y. I thought the kids at LEwis & Clark (not on your radar I know) were "fringy" in that there was more "out there" clothing and haircuts (mohawks, died hair, piercings, etc.) (and no offense meant to anyone who has a child at L&C) but Earlham kids seemed pretty down to earth. A few piercings, a few unusual haircuts, but mostly lots of kids in jeans and sweaters, some beards, some long hair. However, if you compared Earlham to say the kids at Dickinson or Randolph Macon then, yes, they might be fringier. There were a few more noticeably "Fringy" kids at Beloit but not excessively so - daughter looked like she fit in there too. My husband, who is pretty conservative, would not have any objections to any of the kids on either campus, I think. </p>
<p>In terms of the liberalness at Earlham, yes, it is definitely a liberal student body. My sense was there was a lot of passion about politics on campus with a definite liberal slant. Lots of concern about women's issues and gay rights. I didn't see any free Tibet posters but the school's weekly events calendar did mention there was weekly free Aids/STD testing available at the health center. (Makes a mother feel secure to read that, I'll tell ya) As I mentioned, there has been some debate in the student newspaper about whether conservative students feel comfortable on campus and the administration is making some effort to encourage more well-rounded political dialogue. Reading the reactions of kids on the Earlham Livejournal to the William Kristal pie-throwing incident last week, many were outraged that it had occurred but some others were saying he deserved it because he was a "baby killer" due to his association with the Bush family. So there may be some "in your face" politics there. But the kids seemed pretty low key in general so I don't know how much of an issue this would be - really the type of school you need to visit and decide for yourself.</p>
<p>Looking at the course catalog, there is a definite tendency at Earlham to have classes that are focused on gender, race and social issues and that might bother some who are politically conservative. Beloit's course catalog seemed more mainstream, less politicized to me (but gosh they have some unusual classes there! How many LAC's with 1300 kids offer classes in Hungarian and Egyptian Hieroglypics?!) Judging by the posters for events around campus, I'd also say that BEloit's students, while they may be liberal minded, are just a bit less passionate about politics than Earlham's. It also seemed to me that there may be a higher number of more conservative or at least moderate kids at Beloit. (The school newspaper had an article about different religious organizations on campus, for instance, with discussions about kids participating in local religious services).</p>
<p>As to your other question, the cities/towns of Beloit and Earlham are not horrible. They are just former industrial towns in the midwest that have seen better days. I'd probably compare them to much smaller versions of Syracuse in upstate NY in terms of the way they look and feel. </p>
<p>In Richmond, it was evident that the economy isn't exactly vibrant - many, many houses for sale, for instance - but the campus itself feels pretty removed from the town and the immediate area around the campus had very nice homes. On the EArlham campus itself, you mainly see lots of wide open spaces and woods (it is set back from the road) so the feeling is actually pretty bucolic. In Beloit, the campus is closer to the downtown area (walking distance) but overlooks some abandoned factory buildings. It doesn't have the sense of being removed from the town like Earlham does. The houses immediately off campus were nice but there are a few large apartment buildings right off campus (not student housing as most Beloit students live on campus) that didn't exactly look like upscale housing. The downtown area itself seems to be on the edge of a possible rebirth - there were a few art galleries, some restaurants, and the Beloit bookstore itself is downtown - but it has not gotten there yet. My sense was (and this has been confirmed by people like Lalady and others who have kids at both schools) that there were areas in each town that might be a bit dicey.</p>
<p>Now, if you want a beautiful - and I do mean beautiful town - Lake Forest is unbelievable. My daughter and I just kept driving around with our jaws dropping at the mansions there. And the downtown area was pciture postcard perfect too.</p>
<p>Thanks so much Carolyn-I just ordered the "Collegiate Choice" videos (something that you did prior to your visits, if I recall). Did you find that they "rang true" as far as what you saw at the campuses you visited?</p>
<p>Carolyn, when your daughter is ready to email my son, just let me know. Bixian, I found the Collegiate Choice video on Beloit very boring, but worth watching. I think those videos (for all schools) would be more useful if the date of taping were disclosed. Weather, status of building projects, etc. could be better gauged.</p>
<p>Bxian, The Earlham video is pretty true to life - gives you a good sense of what the campus looks like, but it is actually prettier (in my opinion) than the video shows. </p>
<p>While we were at Beloit, my daughter kept remarking that the Collegiate Choice video and the actual campus did not seem to jive. I think that you get the impression from the Collegiate Choice video that Beloit's campus is much larger and spread out than it actually is and, of course, he never seems to show much of the surrounding neighborhood in any of the videos. What did ring true, after we visited, was that in the video professors are constantly coming up and talking to the tour (he cuts much of this out after the initial approach by the teachers) - if Earlham has the friendliest students of the 15 or so campuses we've visited, Beloit must have the friendliest professors. That does come through in the video.</p>
<p>Both the Beloit and Earlham tapes appear to be quite dated. For instance, there is a new building (2 years old) at Earlham that is not shown and they talk about a tri-mester schedule which has not been around for several years. Yhey also talk about Anne coulter coming to visit, which I have just learned happened over 3 years ago. There was something in the Beloit video that indicated to me that it was at least several years old too, but I am having a senior moment and can't recall it right now. So, take the info. on them with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>By the way Bxian, I was looking at the two course catalogs this morning and your son really should take a look at Beloit for Asian studies. Although Earlham is reknowned for its Japanese studies program, they do not offer Chinese every semester there (and in fact, not at all some years if they don't have a teacher on campus to teach it, which apparently does happen judging by some of the comments made on Earlham's livejournal) whereas Beloit has very strong programs in both. I must say, Beloit really does have an amazing language program for such a small school.</p>
<p>BEloit's major is is Asian languages and cultures, can be combined with an Asian studies minor. A neat thing about Beloit is their very strong anthropology and archeology program, which includes some classes related to Asia (i.e., an ethnography class on contemporary cultures of Asia) Plus they have some very interested interdisciplinary studies classes that would be of interest to someone interest in Asia (i.e., a class called "Central Asia: a sense of region" that looks at "the cultures and history of the area between the Caspian Sea and Central (inner Asia) inhabited by non-chinese people: including Azeri, Kazakh, Mongol, Turkman or how about "Ethinicity and the EurAsian Nation-State" which "examines how ethnic consciousness was voiced in diverse cultures of the EurAsian heartland") </p>
<p>I guess if I were going to choose between Earlham and Beloit for myself, I think I would lean towards Beloit because they have so many interesting sounding courses. EArlham also has interesting and unique classes, but the ones at Beloit are a bit more geared towards the artsy-social sciences side. I think this will ultimately be an issue for my daughter if she keeps both schools on her list because she is much more of a creative-type than a political type. (Also, last night I looked at the numbers - Earlham had 5 history majors graduate last year, Beloit 18. Largest major at Beloit is social sciences, Second largest major at Beloit is visual and performing arts. At Earlham, top major is biology, followed by sociology/anthropology).</p>