<p>This weekend I heard a presentation from Jim Miller, director of admissions at Brown, given to an audience of alumni. Here are a few miscellaneous things he said that may be of interest (nothing earth shattering).</p>
<p>--Brown has not decided what to do about early decision. It will be discussed and reviewed. What Harvard did was done to meet Harvards institutional needs, and Brown has to consider both its institutional needs and those of its applicants. We are reviewing it and we want to be sure we are flexible and will do what the market and institution demands They will ask, Does it serve the institution and the students? He predicts Yale will eliminate EA next.</p>
<p>-- Campus visits and requests for viewbooks are up 20%</p>
<p>-- While Brown is interested in geographic diversity, it is more interested in what he called geographic authenticity. Someone who recently moved to North Dakota from New Jersey is not considered to be a native North Dakotan, and thus would not bring geographic diversity to the school.</p>
<p>-- Consultants: He says they often can see through this because consultants cant control every piece of the application. While the essay might be polished, often the short answers arent. If teachers dont praise a students writing skills, they are skeptical. </p>
<p>-- Use of the SAT writing section: if they have a student whose essay reads like Hemingway yet there is no other evidence that this kid is a great writer, they have looked at the SAT essay.</p>
<p>-- More than half of last years applicants came from high schools that dont rank. He guesses that in the not-so-distant future, all schools will abolish ranking.</p>
<p>-- After an episode of The OC last spring, he got a few e-mails that asked him, Why didnt you admit Seth?</p>
<p>Why didn't he admit Seth? Because he received thousands of applications from extremely well-qualified candidates, and unfortunately Brown had to turn down many deserving applicants (who are sure to have successful careers elsewhere). Also, Seth is a whiny, self-obsessed, over-privileged slacker who was ambivalent about Brown and had little interest in anything Brown can offer except a couple of girls -- and that doubtless came through loud and clear on his application. </p>
<p>(Still trying to figure out how Marissa got into Berkeley, but I guess now we'll never know.)</p>
<p>Did he say anything further about non-ranking high schools? I'm interested in how admissions counselors view non-ranking schools because I know many parents who worry that it will be a disadvantage to send their child to a non-ranking school. Is it helpful to a college admissions committee to know a student's class rank, especially if the student's high school is not well known to the adcom, or is it a non-issue?</p>
<p>DRJ4: He didn't say anything that would answer your specific questions -- he didn't indicate that he was happy or unhappy with this trend. However, since more than half the applicants came from such schools and he didn't say they were at a disadvantage, these parents' concerns seem unsubstantiated. He seems resigned to the trend, and did predict that in a few years, no schools will rank. (I'm sure my daughter's school will be one of the last holdouts, since the faculty insists on ranking and nonweighted grades.)</p>
<p>Even when schools report class rank, we have to dig around to figure out what the numbers mean. My favorite example: a student was ranked #1 in her class, which was a total of 120-150 students. However, she shared that rank with 44 others. It doesn't look so impressive when you see that #1 in context.</p>
<p>We treat GPA similarly. We look to the SSR to tell us the highest and lowest GPAs in the class, how many A's are being given (grade distribution charts) and how classes are weighted to help us interpret the GPA.</p>
<p>What do you do with a school that doesn't provide that information? I've seen my D's HS profile, and it does not include information about highest and lowest GPA or grade distribution charts. (I know UVA has accepted kids from this school, so you've figured something out.)</p>
<p>sly_vt, you might check with the GC to see if they give any information which helps put the student's achievement in context. My son's school doesn't officially rank, but does provide decile info. I believe the GC's letter of recommendation will say something like, "student is in the top 3% of class" etc. The school also provides a very detailed profile, which includes info on the grading scheme, number of APs available, different levels of courses (up to five per subject area), average SATs, and a list of colleges which students have attended in the last four years. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to come up with a pretty accurate rank, although the info is not explicitly stated.</p>
<p>sly_vt, what interesting timing of your report on Brown's Jim Miller's remarks on "geographic authenticity." Last week I had an email from an old friend. Her son is considering applying to Brown and she wanted my advice as a veteran of the Brown admissions process. Her son is a West Virginia native. It seems that the Brown application asks for 'place of birth." Her son's place of birth, and the place of birth for everyone in their town who isn't a home birth, is Pennsylvania. At the time I dismissed her concern rather lightly since his residence and high school are clearly in West Virginia. Now I am not so sure. </p>
<p>I have sent this thread on to her and suggested that perhaps he should somehow indicate that although his place of birth and birth certificate indicate that he is from Pennsylvania, he is a life long West Virginian. Do you think this is necessary? If it is, then perhaps rather than ask "place of birth" colleges should ask for "residence at birth" or ask the applicants how long they have resided in the state (or country) that they have indicated as their residence. Thinking about her son's situation, I am not sure that asking for the place of birth is the best way to insure geographic authenticity.</p>
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[quote]
Even when schools report class rank, we have to dig around to figure out what the numbers mean. My favorite example: a student was ranked #1 in her class, which was a total of 120-150 students. However, she shared that rank with 44 others. It doesn't look so impressive when you see that #1 in context.
[/quote]
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<p>Unfortunately, not everyone seems willing to scratch below the surface and nail the obvious gamesmanship. It is obvious that USA Today or a few colleges did not pay much attention to the 40+ valedictorians at Fairfax County's Robinson High School.</p>
<p>shelf life, I don't think they're only looking at place of birth. For example, if someone was born in Wyoming, but moved to NY at 6 months of age, went to elementary, junior high and high school in NY, then that person is considered a New Yorker. If your friend grew up and went to school in West Va, then he would be considered a West Virginian even though he was born in PA.</p>
<p>What Miller was addressing is the theory prevalent among families in very competitive suburban East Coast high schools, that if they moved to North Dakota their kids would get into the selective schools. Your friend from West Virginia is clearly from W.Va., and has the HS transcript to prove it. I would think that geographic authenticity doesn't mean that you were born somewhere, but lived there for a long-enough time to bring the flavor of your home state to the school. How long is that time -- not one or two years, perhaps, but maybe four years? six years? </p>
<p>When I was in college, I remember meeting a number of "international" students who turned out to be Americans whose American parents were stationed overseas. While I'm sure their experiences were interesting, it wasn't the same as meeting a native German or Italian, for example.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>...it is more interested in what he called geographic authenticity. Someone who recently moved to North Dakota from New Jersey is not considered to be a native North Dakotan, and thus would not bring geographic diversity to the school.<<</p>
</blockquote>
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<p>So does the Brown app ask for your entire biography so that they can decide for themselves where you are <em>really</em> from? I wonder how they judge military kids who grew up moving every two or three years?</p>
<p>I think military kids bring a different kind of diversity to a campus - very different experiences.</p>
<p>I've also heard admissions counselors who don't like high school rankings - they say it tells them very little that they can't see from the transcripts and profiles. And the differences between 1st and 2nd or even 1st and 15th in a class often are statistically insignificant, but kids and parents stress themselves out over these meaningless differentiations. That's why my d's school stopped ranking quite a while ago. And kids still get into the Browns, Harvards, Williams, etc.</p>
<p>Coureur -- I'm sure military kids are considered in an entirely different way -- they bring something different to the table. </p>
<p>As we all know, geographic diversity or authenticity is just another aspect of the applicant that is considered. All Miller was saying is, I believe, that if you are from New Jersey don't move to North Dakota in your kid's senior year just so your kid can get into Brown. And don't move to Montana from California for the same reason.</p>
<p>Another non-ranking school here. In a senior class of 115 my D's year we sent 1 to Harvard, 1 to Yale, 4 to Princeton (lots of ED), 1 to Dartmouth, 1 to Brown, 2 to Cornell, 4 to Stanford, and proportionally on through the ranks especially UCs of course. However, I wonder if non-ranking works best in these small private schools?</p>
<p>sly_vt, what did you mean in the paragraph about the SAT writing section? Are you saying that a kid might prepare in advance for the essay question? Just wondering.</p>
<p>When we visited Brown with my daughter, we took the science tour and met, by coincidence, the rep who reads the applications for our state. He told us that he wasn't interested in student council presidents, which we took to be good news, because the D had no leadership positions to speak of. The rep said that he was looking for unusual students, and he mentioned a boy from Kentucky who had moved away from home, was living in an apartment and supporting himself . . . while still in high school. We still thought that meant that the D had a fighting chance. Fast-forward several months: the D was deferred, and I had the cc call and ask for some details. The rep wasn't interested in a girl who had grown up in Paris and maintained fluency in several languages; he wanted students whose parents either hadn't attended college or even graduated from high school. Worrying about geographic balance is the least of it!</p>
<p>Georgemma, one decides to trust reps as his or her own peril. I am not sure when the biggest lies are told ... before or after the decisions were made. With all the stories we are expected to believe, there seems to be an unending supply of avid fishermen in the education business.</p>