MIT DIII versus UPenn DI swimming (mens)

Athletic Recruits
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<p>Hi all, I'm a rising senior. I've been in contact with a couple swim coaches in the past year and I narrowed my top choices to Penn (Wharton) and MIT (Sloan). I'm applying to both schools early (ED for Penn, EA for MIT), so both coaches are willing to write me a letter of recommendation/push my application. I've met with the MIT coach on campus. I visited Penn's campus before my Junior year ended but it was during their Spring Break and the coach was not there to meet me. He has recently contacted me by phone however, and has said that he is going to be at my championship meet ending this season in about 10 days, and will talk with me then. </p>

<p>The word so far from the Penn coach is that I'm definitely in his sights for recruiting, but he gets only 8-9 slots so I wouldn't know if I get recruited/get a likely letter until mid-October. Early applications are due Nov 1st, so this really isn't too reassuring. He has said however, that the least I can expect from him is a letter to the admissions office, and as of now, he's already forwarded them my academic/school profile before I've even applied. Penn has to have their recruits average an Academic Index score (based on GPA/Tests) of 209, and my score is 235. So one primary reason they're looking at me is because if they recruit me, they can get pretty much anyone they want. And I could also make some impact for the team. In the Penn coach's words, I'm not Michael Phelps but they'd love to have me.</p>

<p>The MIT coach wants me on the team because I would be one of their best swimmers as a Freshman, but as a DIII coach, she obviously has a lot less pull than the Penn coach. She's also told me she will write a letter to admissions, but after reading the threads on CC about DIII and especially MIT recruiting, I have no idea how much weight that has, if it has any at all.</p>

<p>My question is, given my academic background (see below), both coaches said I'm clearly well-qualified to excel at either school. It sounds good, but I know that that doesn't necessarily mean I'll get in. Would merely a letter to admissions from the coach at either school have any bearing on me as an applicant, if I don't end up being one of the 8 recruits for Penn? My mother's logic is that if the admission sees that I'm wanted by the coach, and they have no reason not to accept me because of my academics/scores, then they will accept me. Is this just an overly-optimistic way of thinking? What the coaches haven't told me is just how many letters they can write. Does anybody here have experience with this, where they were a borderline/unsure DI Ivy recruit but maybe didn't end up being officially recruited but just ended up receiving a push-letter from the coach?</p>

<p>(Oh yeah, also, I'm an Asian-American (Chinese). I've been hearing so many varied opinions on this that I'd like a clarification. So what I heard is that it's harder for Asians to get into colleges since colleges compare Asian applications with other Asians'. Then the college coaches, and my guidance counselor, said that this wasn't true. Then some of the just-graduating seniors told me that it is true for the most part, but because I pay 30 grand a year to go to a primarily White Roman-Catholic private school that has good relations with most Ivy League schools and other top schools, it doesn't really apply to me. Anybody else here have any more definitive thoughts on this? It has nothing to do with recruiting but I'm just curious.)</p>

<p>Anyways, here's my Academic Background:</p>

<p>GPA (out of 12.0):</p>

<p>1) 9th Grade: 11.238
2) 10th Grade: 11.513
3) 11th Grade: 11.750
4) 12th Grade: (Tentative)
5) Cumulative: 11.496</p>

<p>*NOTE: An A is an 11.0, so my cumulative meant averaging between A and A+'s on every course. I don't know why our school uses such a weird scale, but that's the explanation and apparently the guidance counselors say that the colleges "will know what this scale is."</p>

<p>Course Placement:</p>

<p>1) 10th Grade: AP European History (5), AP Calculus AB (5)
2) 11th Grade: AP American History (5), AP Calculus BC (5), AP English Language (5), AP Physics B (5)
3) 12th Grade: AP Macroeconomics, Linear Algebra, AP English Literature, AP Vergil, AP Art History, AP Statistics (Self-study)</p>

<p>Standardized Testing:</p>

<p>1) PSAT: 227 (Critical Reading: 76, Mathematics: 80, Writing: 71)
2) SAT: 2310 (Critical Reading: 740, Mathematics: 780, Writing: 790 (11 Essay))
3) SAT Subject Tests: (Mathematics Level II: 800, American History: 780, Physics: 780)</p>

<p>Bunch of extracurriculars: Debate, Economics Club, Math League, Social Justice Committee, Students Against Destructive Decisions, Community Service, etc etc etc. There are a lot to list, but I have plenty of good ones.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>That’s a tough call because those are both tough schools. Is EA non-binding at MIT? Is Penn your first choice? If the answer to both questions is yes, then you should be fine. If you get into Penn you will go, and if you don’t you won’t have shut out MIT (if you had to choose one or the other for early application)</p>

<p>I’d be very nervous about a coach who wants to wait and see if something better comes along, honestly, especially with the competition to get into the ivy league schools. My daughter just went through this and had friends who looked at Penn - and she also has a friend at MIT - a swimmer, in fact.</p>

<p>These are stressful times, waiting to see what will happen. In the end, some will go with the bird in hand - but if neither can offer you that you might just have to wait and see.</p>

<p>Good luck at your championship meet!</p>

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<p>Thanks for the response, wilberry228. </p>

<p>Yes, EA is non-binding for MIT, and Penn is my first choice. MIT is also my second choice though, as these two schools have been my favorite visits by far, so it’s not an issue of which one to apply to. I was just hesitant to get my hopes up, as much as I want to get them up.</p>

<p>I guess it’s just that time of the season when rising seniors get nervous about every little thing.</p>

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<p>Is there a chance the Penn coach will give you a ‘likely letter?’ At least then you’ll know sooner. Otherwise, just make sure you have a third choice that you’re happy with just in case. Luckily the anxious part is over in a few (short?) months :-)</p>

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<p>My son is a swimmer interested in both MIT and UPenn. He has similar grades and test scores too. I don’t, however, have much more to offer you than my impressions. </p>

<p>For UPenn I believe the coach can do little to help you if you are not offered one of the 8 or so slots he is given every year to bring in recruits. Instead of your Academic Index helping you, it will most likely lead the coach to hope you get in on your other merits. Still, if UPenn were my top choice, I would like the coach know that. It helps him to know he isn’t giving up a slot to a tremendous swimmer who is really hoping for Princeton, Harvard or Stanford anyway.</p>

<p>MIT is a different case and I think the coach can help you. She will definitely do all she can since you would be a top swimmer for her right away. Do you plan to attend a recruiting trip there this Fall? I believe it’s a great idea if you can do it. I expect you may find a few current swimmers on the team who were in the same situation you are in now. </p>

<p>Good luck to you and I would trust your mother’s instincts.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the info, GrudeMonk. Yes, I’m going to a weekend recruiting trip at MIT in late September. I wish you and your son the best of luck in the application process.</p>

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<p>limdelbarton, your grades and ec look outstanding. You have a great chance of getting into UPenn without the swimming connection. The Ivys are tough to get a likely letter without at least 1 Junior Nat. cut. Good luck and I hope you get into you top choice.</p>

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<p>I am a Chinese mom. I really want to know which school you got in? Best for you! Please reply.</p>

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<p>This is an old thread and the OP may well not be on anymore. It does look like he’s at Wharton School from his ID site so I would assume he is at UPenn.</p>