MIT Undergraduate Management (Sloan School): Course 15

My son is a rising sophomore at MIT and says that he wants to declare Course 15-3 (Finance) as his major.

Since January 2016, there are three majors offered in the Sloan School, replacing the single management major:

http://mitsloan.mit.edu/newsroom/articles/mit-sloan-launches-three-new-undergraduate-majors-and-minors/

It seems that these new majors are becoming popular:

http://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/2016/07/06/mit-sloan-major-declarations-double/

The MIT undergraduate business program is highly rated, nevertheless, few MIT students actually pursue a degree in business:

http://web.mit.edu/registrar/stats/yrpts/index.html

Please provide your thoughts about the undergraduate Sloan School majors. For example:

What do employers think about an MIT business degree? What do MIT undergraduates think about their fellow students who pursue business as a major? Is it smarter to do Course 15 as a double major?

Why does he want to be Course 15? Does he actually find the classes interesting or engineering too difficult? I knew three Course 15 majors. They all declared it because they couldn’t do well in anything else. They became very successful eventually, winding up at Harvard and Stanford for their MBA.

I think Course 15 is fine as a double major. MIT is hands down the best engineering school in the world. It would be a shame not to take advantage of that opportunity. Business concepts just aren’t that hard and can be learned quickly.

As a general rule, business majors aren’t highly respected. Even MBAs aren’t unless the degree is from a top 10 school. The best path is to study a discipline to gain industry expertise, work for 2 years, then get an MBA.

In my experience as a EE/CS with an MBA.

  1. Do what you like, and you will be successful at it vs. doing something you don't like
  2. Successful businessmen will make a lot more money in general than a successful engineer.
  3. Business concepts are easier to learn, but so what
  4. Graduating from MIT will open many doors, no matter what the degree.

JMHO

@brassratter He took a finance class his second semester and liked it. He’s doing well in all of his classes (As and Bs, so far), so it’s not because he wants to avoid math, science, or engineering. Also, he’s decided that he doesn’t want to pursue research as a career; he did research at MIT while in high school.

What I’ve read conforms with your belief that business majors are not well-respected on campus, at least. It’s odd though because MIT’s business program is highly regarded and is reported to be more math intensive than at most other universities:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/business
http://www.collegechoice.net/top-undergraduate-business-schools/
https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2016/business-management-studies

@CU123 Thanks for the tips. My personal experience as an aerospace engineer agrees with #2. STEM in America is viewed as a highly-paid career path but in reality is very limited monetarily, unless you jump to management (viz. Rex Tillerson, BS Civil Engineering, UT Austin).

@whatisyourquest exactly, initial money is good but after that business will far outpace engineering. My college roommate graduated in EE went to Wharton, then IB, retired more than 10 years ago with more beans in the bank than he knows what to do with, never worked a day as an engineer.

Here is MIT class of 2020 majors distribution. It seems that there are course 6 students and everyone else. It doesn’t mean that other majors are not respected on campus.

https://www.thetech.com/2017/05/04/freshmen-major-declarations-2017

From @Ballerina016 's link:

“Course 24-2 (Linguistics & Philosophy) once again scored only one member of the freshman class”

That is amazing because the MIT Linguistics and Philosophy programs are very highly regarded.

I was very happy that my son was admitted to MIT, primarily because it’s fantastic in so many fields, which meant that he’d have many great options for his undergraduate education. I never would have anticipated though that he’d pick finance. He never showed any interest in finance as a kid. Some high school students have a dream job and never deviate. Others, like mine, need to experiment before converging on a career.

^ I find it even more staggering that only 1 student in the class of 2019 declared for EAPS (Course 12).

If you scroll down to post graduate salaries on this page: http://colleges.startclass.com/compare/1954-4754/Massachusetts-Institute-of-Technology-vs-Stanford-University

It shows Management Science majors with post graduate starting salaries of $300K. I can’t say I trust the stats on startclass, but if it is true, then wow!

I never said engineers earn more money or suggested the son become an engineer. If he thinks he might like business more, that is a perfectly fine option. Double majoring in 15 and engineering gives him the best chance to be successful. Let’s work this out backwards. If he chooses business, he should get an MBA. When he applies to MBA programs, the admissions committee wants to see that the applicant will make good use of the degree, meaning he will earn a lot of money. Who is more likely to earn a higher salary? An MIT grad who majored in business or an MIT grad who majored in an engineering field? Probably the latter. If that undergrad degree in engineering helps him get into H, U Chicago, U Penn, or S Business instead of a second tier, he is way better off. With an MBA in hand, who has a better chance of being hired at Apple or Google? A Harvard MBA/MIT undergrad who only knows business or a Harvard MBA/MIT undergrad who majored in Course 6 or 2 or 10 or 3? MBA degree has more value to someone who has industry expertise. There is nothing to debate here.

Going back to the original post about respect on campus. MIT students value intelligence. There is closet studying because saying you pulled an all-nighter and got a B isn’t as impressive as saying you studied a bit and got a B. So, students in Course 4, 15, and 21 get less respect. Perhaps everyone is too polite to say it publicly, but it is what it is. I once worked with an MD who told me he went to MIT. I was impressed until he told me he was Course 21. It’s possible he really loved humanities. It’s more likely he didn’t do well in science and math.

@brassratter I value and respect your opinions. I started this thread to gather information from people like you. If it were up to me, my son would go the route that you advocate: engineering degree first, followed by an MBA. I’ve asked him to consider whether that is not a wiser plan. After this thread has expired, I’ll have him read the posts and ask his thoughts. Perhaps we will change his mind. If not, I won’t arm twist him. I’d rather that he choose the path that he feels is the best fit for him. As @CU123 noted, “do what you want and you will be successful at it.” I believe that to be true.

I did a quick search on the undergraduate academic backgrounds of MBA students at Harvard and Wharton for the class of 2018:

http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/class-profile/Pages/default.aspx
https://mba.wharton.upenn.edu/class-profile/

Harvard:

Economics/Business, 41%
STEM, 38%
Humanities/Social Sciences, 21%

Wharton:

Business, 26%
STEM, 28%
Humanities, 46%

So, at least for these two exemplary MBA programs, business/economics grads seem to do as well as STEM grads in admissions.

However, the Stanford MBA program does have more STEM grads than business grads:

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/programs/mba/admission/evaluation-criteria/class-profile

Business, 15%
Engineering/Mathematics/Natural Sciences, 37%
Humanities/Social Sciences, 48%

It’s interesting that humanities/social science grads do so well with Wharton and Stanford MBA admissions.

UChicago Booth stats for the class of 2018:

https://www.chicagobooth.edu/programs/full-time

Business, 28%
Economics, 25%
Engineering, 20%
Liberal Arts, 17%
Physical Sciences, 7%
Other, 4%

@brassratter wrote: “If that undergrad degree in engineering helps him get into H, U Chicago, U Penn, or S Business instead of a second tier, he is way better off.”

Except for the Stanford MBA program, I don’t see any evidence to support this statement.

These are percentages of enrolled students who majored in business compared to engineering. You have to look at how many of each major applied to conclude the major makes no difference. I bet there are many more business majors applying. While an MIT business major stands out, an MIT engineering major might stand out more if MBA admissions knows that engineering is much harder than business.

My points are made assuming your son doesn’t dislike engineering and can do well if he chooses it as a major. Whatever the decision, he’ll do well. That’s the beauty of having MIT on his resume.

^ That’s a good point. It’s possible (even likely) that there are many more business majors applying to these elite MBA programs, and that the percent admitted is much lower than that for the engineering majors that apply. I doubt that those stats are available.

By the same token, the large percentage of humanities majors in the Harvard and Stanford MBA programs can mean 1) that there are tons of them that apply and the percent admitted from that pool is very low, or 2) that the Harvard and Stanford MBA admissions folks don’t put a lot of emphasis on undergraduate academic difficulty (assuming, of course, that they concur that engineering is more difficult than the humanities).

My son got his grades last night. He has a 4.7. (MIT uses a 5 point grade scale.) He missed out on 5.0 by one grade point in his differential equations class.

Typo. I should have written “the large percentage of humanities majors in the Wharton and Stanford MBA programs.”

Congratulations to him on those grades.

I don’t know if business schools factor undergrad majors into their decisions, but here are some things to consider before deciding to be Course 15 instead of double majoring or doing a single major in engineering.
He’ll have more fun and more free time if he does 15 only. He won’t bond as well with the rest of campus because Sloan is physically separated from the other buildings and because there won’t be opportunities to suffer through problem sets and exams with engineering students. Don’t underestimate this. MIT alums are tight knit because they respect what they’ve gone through together. He’ll know a small fraction of what an MBA who majored in engineering knows. There isn’t much to a business curriculum so I can’t imagine what he’ll learn in business school that he didn’t already learn as a Course 15. He’ll risk less respect from his schoolmates. Some people wouldn’t care but obviously you do. It might be tougher to get the exact job he wants after college graduation. It might also be harder to tell a good story when applying to business school about why he wants an MBA.

I’m splitting hairs. As I’ve said, he’ll do well regardless of his major. A career in business is more fun, in my opinion, and more lucrative. I’ve been recommending MBAs to anyone asking for my opinion.

Most of the classmates I know who went into 15-3 became equity traders right after graduation, without pursuing subsequent graduate education. Oddly enough, I could also say the same thing about my Course 2 friends. I do hear that equity trading pays pretty well.