@californiaaa, my D attends The University of the Arts, which is in Center City, Philadelphia. UPenn is not too far. This is a relatively safe neighborhood, and I would not expect the mob violence Temple experienced to happen here. In fact, at freshman orientation and at other times, UArts students are cautioned about the area around Temple. They figure out (are told by upperclassmen, basically) where it is safe to go at Temple if they want to go there.
A good friend’s D attends Temple. She says they feel safe on campus and even immediately around it, and they live in a sheltered suburb.
I would think that Temple would be focusing more on safety and not the same or less as they were. Of course, if I had a child considering attending there, I’d ask what new measures are being done to address this issue.
Of course it’s not normal. It’s not normal at Temple, either. It happened once and made national news. Nothing like that had happened before (except maybe people had been trying to make something like that happen for a couple of weeks before it actually happened). Now that it has happened, a lot of effort is going to go into making certain it doesn’t happen again.
And, just to be clear, Temple (much less Philadelphia) was not “overrun by a violent mob” or engulfed in “bloody riots.” What happened was no doubt scary, abnormal, and unacceptable, but it was neither of those things. It seems like there were effectively four or five violent incidents, some of which may have involved the same small group of troublemakers, out of hundreds (maybe thousands) of people participating in the flash mob. Many of them intervened to stop the violence when it occurred.
It is much, much more difficult to imagine something like this happening at Penn. Some of things that cause tension between Temple and its surrounding community-- university expansion displacing longtime residents or pricing them out of their own neighborhood – happened so long ago at Penn that it’s not a current issue for anyone. At Temple, the pace is accelerating. And other tension-producing things never happened at all at Penn. Attracting stronger students and more out-of-region and out-of-state students has meant that the number and percentage of Temple students from the city’s African-American community has plummeted over the past 15 years. Financial aid has shifted from need to merit, too. I think there is a sense that opportunity has been taken away from them, that an institution in which the community felt it had a real stake has rejected them. There aren’t any other public bachelor’s degree options in the city, and the nearest suburban ones are not convenient at all for city kids or very welcoming to them.
http://www.thedp.com/article/2016/11/upennalert-unarmed-robbery
Penn just sent out a Penn alert a couple of days ago bc a group of middle school age local kids on bikes surrounded and tried to steal a phone from someone near campus in a similar fashion as to the Temple flash mob violence that has been occurring at Temple. It can very easily happen at Penn and U of Arts but I know the administrators will be right on top of these situations!!
I am one of Temple’s biggest supporters of all the great things that have been going on at Temple as the school rises in the rankings. I LOVE Temple! Not sure, am hoping this whole new administration doesn’t put a damper on that… I liked the old administration and how things were happening quickly for Temple. Holding my breath that it continues.
But that said, PLEASE don’t kid yourself that Temple is located in a “normal” inner city crime environment. It is in an EXTREMELY dangerous part of Philly!!! The ENTIRE campus has to be put under bright lights all night long (literally its lit up) to deter crime and they have one of the biggest police forces in the city. The area surrounding Temple is a RED Zone on the Philly Crime map (map shows green (safe), yellow, orange, and Red areas.) It is dangerous don’t kid yourself. The campus itself is a green zone, 1 block off is Red.
Many Temple students are safety conscious and don’t have a problem, but many DO have problems even with being safety conscious. Temple is growing and trying to gentrify the area and like JHS said, that is causing enormous pushback from local residents. It doesn’t seem like Temple administrators and Temple Police were ready for that. Hopefully this woke them up.
The area close to Penn has been gentrifying for a long time now but as you go farther into West Philadelphia, it does become less safe. However, Penn has a large University police force and the campus and close environs are patrolled (very noticeably at night): https://www.publicsafety.upenn.edu/about/uppd/
On-campus crime rates are pretty easy to research. What is more difficult to find out about is off-campus crime that is not reported by the schools. The following website tracks crime in Philadelphia. You can see a nice red “hotspot” right over Temple’s campus.
Regarding post 34: : oh yeah, of course, Northampton and Chapel Hill are known for flash mobs. And lots of thugs are running all over Grinnell and Gambier and South Hadley as well. The victim’s father called the assailants ‘sick.’ That’s charitable. How about evil? How about a hate crime based on racism?
These stories highlight the need to be aware when you leave campus. You have to be aware of your surroundings. I think many campus’ do a good job keeping students safe. But this all goes out the window once you leave campus.
We live in an extremely violent society (maybe the most violent on the planet) and we all need to be careful.
While this incident is unfortunate, there is violence on most campuses at some point or other. I have seen large state schools have outright riots after a game - to the point where the police on horses and in riot gear have to be called out. All of of it dangerous and unacceptable. There are universities that just have a reputation for being in “dangerous” urban environments, Yale and UChicago come to mind. As I recruit, I speak to students and parents about going to school in an urban environment, especially if they did not come from such an area. Even my kid, who grew up in the suburbs surrounding DC has to be reminded to be safe occasionally.
I don’t know how parents on here can say that they don’t expect mob violence at so and so campus. In today’s world, violence is so random. Someone mentioned Virginia Tech in a previous response. I think that the parents of those students would have preferred a mob of students to a deranged gunman on campus. I have a student in New Haven and I know that it is not the best place. But neither is DC, NY, Chicago, or LA. However, some of the small, quieter campuses are hiding other dangers. So while you are assessing the dangers in the surrounding communities before making decisions, please look at the school’s track record on responses to sexual assault allegations between students, suicide rates, assaults and injuries during frat parties and other dangers that students are often subjected to. Isolated schools usually create their own brand of crazy and some administrations have not learned the lesson that covering them up is not a good plan.
There is violence in all campuses. No one is denying it.
But the same level of mob violence from outside in anywhere? According to Washington Post, it was estimated to have about 150 teens involved in the Temple incident. 150 disorderly teens? For many rural campuses, you barely have 150 HS teens living in those towns. It is simply mathematically impossible. Furthermore, in many rural campuses, there is barely effective public transportation in those towns and local households usually scattered far away from the college. It is technically difficult for those rural kids to come up the same level of mass.
Yes, in pretty much everywhere, we cannot rule out the possibility of say up to 1-2 dozen of teen mob that can attack our kids, along with other types of violence, and we need to remind our kids about their safety no matter where they are.
But, 150 disorderly teens? Also, it has happened a few times before? Sorry, I will not have my kids it there. This is just too much for me to even think about it.
@prof2dad Btw. have you seen the thread on here about kids being at secluded colleges? There are benefits of being in the woodlands.
I agree with you. It seems to me it is much less violent to be in upper state VT or NH as opposed to being in the middle of a violent city like those mentioned.
Every campus has pro and cons. Those in the sticks complain there is nothing to do but might be a bit safer when going off campus for hikes, skiing, mountain biking, etc. Those in a city have lots to do but might find it more dangerous to venture off campus.
To be truthful, we took a Philadelphia school off the list after this event. The story that came out a few days later of a pack of kids getting on a school bus and beating up the driver and younger kids coming home from a catholic school sealed our decision. Too out of control for now.
One of the most dangerous things parents do with their children is put them in an automobile. It’s an accepted part of life but urban dwelling children spend exponentially less time engaging in that dangerous activity.
@MassDaD68 Yes, every campus has pros and cons. Furthermore, one college that is not a good fit to our family and my kids can be a good fit for other families and their kids, and vice versa.
The tragedy is that parents on CC (like myself) have the option of places where our children will go to college. There are different risks: drunken parties, long commutes in automobiles, mass gun killings that are very rare but which can occur anywhere, campuses adjacent to high crime urban neighborhoods. But we have choices not available to the great majority of folks who live in these high crime neighborhoods, who don’t have the option of safe streets.
That said, our D is looking at 2 LACs in a ‘safe’ suburban location.
I apologize if my reference to city life upsets some people on this forum. Apparently many were confused when I mentioned that going to school in a city will be a good experience for my D. I was not insinuating that the flash mob or the crime in the Temple area was normal. I merely mentioned that a city has elements you can’t control.
So if you are looking for a safer school in terms of random violence, then do not look at any city schools. U Penn and Drexel have crimes occur on and around their campuses daily. Even smaller cities and towns have issues. In fact, a rural campus can be subjected to horrific violence. Life is sometimes out of our control.
We chose Temple. You certainly do not have to. Best of luck to all.
