<p>I would have thought most posters here are interested in how a community stacks up as a <em>college town</em>, not how it ranks with suburban couples interested in the proximity of WalMarts and the frequence of trash collection!</p>
<p>Stay <em>on topic</em>, scottie!!!</p>
<p>There is no princeton type any more.</p>
<p>And what makes a good "college town"? Me I would have been completely overwhelmed by a city as a college student. That's why I went to Princeton. I didn't want horns beeping at me and sirens at night and millions of people I didn't know. I wanted to study, to study and have good friends and a boyfriend and great professors. So for some, a place like Princeton is the perfect "college town". It even has a town square. And the bright lights are not so far away as all that.</p>
<p>jtiger, the "princeton type" is byerly/nycfan's armchair notion about the type of applicants that appealed to former princeton dean of admissions fred hargadon. if you're REALLY interested in how hargadon handled admissions - although this would be of only historical interest at this point - check out bill paul's book "getting in." he spent a year shadowing the man during the process.</p>
<p>"For the past year and a half, I had been playing at the role of
college boy. Joyously, consciously, almost intentionally, I had
sought to efface every trace of my past self. In my clothes, my
speech, and even in my walk, I had recast myself in the mold of
the <em>PRINCETON TYPE</em>. Perhaps I had succeeded all too well.
Perhaps my adaptability to my surroundings implied the absence of
any indigenous form or color, the lack of an individual essence,
and I was merely fading into the landscape, ceasing to exist.
It was with some such dim foreboding that I approached
spring elections to the eating clubs that are Princeton's
equivalent to fraternities in other colleges. Three weeks before
the "bicker," I took a violent step. I wrote a letter to my
father announcing my intention not to join a club. It was not a
protest against the snobbishness of the clubs. More likely, it
was an attempt to check the snobbishness I recognized in the self
I was becoming, a groping effort to return to the self I once had
been. ..."</p>
<p>yes, an autobiography from [<em>]1957[</em>] will be right on point. heck, that predates even your OWN college years, byerly.</p>
<p>Take for example this revealing exchange from "This Side of Paradise" - by your namesake (a Princeton dropout):</p>
<p>"I'm sick of adapting myself to the local snobbishness of this corner of the world. I want to go where people aren't barred because of the color of their neckties and the roll of their coats." "You can't, Tom," argued Amory, as they rolled along through the scattering night; "wherever you go now you'll always unconsciously apply these standards of 'having it' or 'lacking it.' For better or worse we've stamped you; you're a <em>PRINCETON TYPE</em>!" "Well, then," complained Tom, his cracked voice rising plaintively, "why do I have to come back at all? I've learned all that Princeton has to offer. Two years more of mere pedantry and lying around a club aren't going to help. They're just going to disorganize me, conventionalize me completely. Even now I'm so spineless that I wonder how I get away with it." "Oh, but you're missing the real point, Tom," Amory interrupted. "You've just had your eyes opened to the snobbishness of the world in a rather abrupt manner. Princeton invariably gives the thoughtful man a social sense."</p>
<p>of course, from the same book:</p>
<p>"I want to go to Princeton," said Amory. "I don't know why, but I think of all Harvard men as sissies, like I used to be, and all Yale men as wearing big blue sweaters and smoking pipes."</p>
<p>"Oh, you're differentI think of Princeton as being lazy and good-looking and aristocraticyou know, like a spring day. Harvard seems sort of indoors"</p>
<p>Here, by way of contrast, is a "Harvard type of guy":</p>
<p>empty barrels make lots of noise....Cambridge is heaven for kids whose own mothers think that their kids are ugly.</p>
<p>Jesus...
"This Side of Paradise" was written decades ago when Princeton, Harvard, Yale and virtually every good college in the USA was dominated by the "Princeton" type. Besides, this was just a ranking about how Princeton is a great place to live. Who cares about these useless rankings you bring up to provide evidence to the contrary? There's always a ranking that says the exact opposite of another ranking and just because you seem to validate only those rankings that place your beloved Harvard on top in some way, shape or form does not make that ranking the definitive one in any way.<br>
I don't know about most people, but to me, the Money ranking does say alot about Princeton as a college town. It says Princeton has a personal crime risk of 6, or 94% less than the national average (and 1/20 of Cambridge's). I don't even think its arguable that safety is not one of the most important factors in the "ideal" college town. We can't even compare the rest of the stats regarding things such as Movie Theaters simply because the entirety of Boston (or a good portion of it) falls within 15/30 miles of Cambridge. Regardless of what you might say, I think most people would like to go to college that fits them the best. The title of best college town means absolutely nothing. Coming from a major city, I personally preferred a college in a more suburban setting so Princeton and Stanford were far more appealing than Harvard ever was. I'm sure that if I lived in Palo Alto or Princeton, Harvard and Yale would have been more appealing. If you're going to argue Harvard superiority in something that is purely subjective and dependent on personal tastes, I believe that would call your authority on "college matters" into question.</p>
<p>Subjective or objective, the fact is that most applicants who are admitted to both Harvard and Princeton overwhelmingly choose Harvard.</p>
<p>There is considerable evidence that the attractiveness of the Cambridge/Boston setting is an important factor in the decision-making for many of these applicants.</p>
<p>"There isn't any doubt that brand matters and that Harvard is the prestige brand," says Stanley Katz, director of Princeton University's Center for Arts and Cultural Policy Studies. "It's the Gucci of higher education, the most selective place."</p>
<p>"It used to be the case that of students who were admitted to Harvard and Princeton or Harvard and Yale, seven of 10 would choose to go to Harvard," Katz says. "It may be more now. There is a tendency for the academically best to skew even more to Harvard. We just get our socks beat off in those cases."</p>
<p>Byerly, Fitzgerald never graduated, as you know. And keep presenting Fitzgerald as the typical Princeton student and I might have to point out the well-reviewed book whose thesis is that the formation of someone no one considers a model citizen was the direct result of his Harvard education: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393020029/102-5423715-2290517?v=glance%5B/url%5D">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393020029/102-5423715-2290517?v=glance</a></p>
<p>Re the borough of Princeton, it is a charming town where students can find Thai, Indian, and other ethnic and fancy restaurants; a fun brewpub; an independent bookshop that was the model for the one in You've Got Mail; several good coffee bars;several florists for big social events; one of the nation's finest regional theaters that sends its own productions to Broadway (to win Tonys) and brings in some of the finest international singers, dancers, etc.; and more. </p>
<p>Any student who would be bored in such a setting must not have a very lively mind. And, frankly, with the intensity of the academics, extracurriculars, and social life on campus, the real problem is how to find time to go to Nassau Street in the first place.</p>
<p>And re that Katz "brand" quote you keep trotting out, why do you see that as a positive for Harvard? Gee, some people poke fun at Princeton for having a visible population of students who wear name-brand polo shirts. It's a lot more laughable to choose a college because it's a name brand. Or should I use your word? Silly.</p>
<p>A bit peevish, there, aparent. "Several florists for big social events", eh? Impressive indeed! And a Thai restaurant? No Burger King or McDonalds allowed, however: we must maintain standards!</p>
<p>It all comes down to personal preference. For me, the town of Princeton was a major draw. Although I enjoy going into the ciry, I would rather live in a safer, more laid-back environment. I find the upscale shops charming, even if, as a decidedly middle-class person, I don't expect to frequent them. The great thing about college life is that the campus is its own community; the town is just a perk. </p>
<p>And, for the record, I'm pretty sure that there is a Burger King near the corner of Nassau and Witherspoon.</p>
<p>... but the Burger King has finally closed, after years of hostility from Borough officials. It will be replaced by some salad chain. Still no McDonalds.</p>
<p>The Daily Princetonian had reported, earlier in the winter, as to the dark day:</p>
<p>Burger King .... will be replaced by Saladworks, a higher-priced chain that specializes in salads and sandwiches. Rich Hopkins, owner of the Nassau Street Saladworks franchise, hopes to open the new restaurant in early April...</p>
<pre><code>"I think it's terrible," Lester Mackey '07 said. "You're replacing red meat and fast food with salad. It's excessively health conscious."
Ryan Crane '08, a former Burger King patron, said he also regrets that the restaurant has closed.
"I can get salad anywhere on campus. Where else am I going to get Burger King?" he said.
To better suit its location, Hopkins said the restaurant will put up pictures of old Princeton instead of the usual Saladworks decorations.
"We're trying to fit in with the Borough," he said.
Hopkins plans to attract clients who would otherwise eat at Panera Bread. The price of a typical meal at Saladworks is seven to eight dollars, he said, which is comparable to prices at Panera.
Despite the price, Hopkins claims that his clients come from all parts of society. "You'd be amazed by the number of construction workers coming into my stores," he said.
The Nassau Street Burger King was a watershed restaurant in Princeton. As one of the first such fast food restaurants in the town, it encountered some opposition from residents.
The Borough "had to make sure everything was done correctly because it was the first fast food chain that was going on Nassau Street," Roberto said.
</code></pre>
<p>The Burger King closed because of lack of business. I think students who really need a Burger King during the four years of college should avoid Princeton. It will be a big disappointment to them. Really.</p>
<p>Yes indeed. You are absolutely correct. Such students ... well, lets just say they wouldn't be ... <em>happy</em> at Princeton: not the ... <em>Princeton type</em>, as it were.</p>
<p>And as for McDonalds - they may serve one out of every ten meals served in America as BusinessWeek reports, but there's really no <em>place</em> for them in Princeton. McDonalds wouldn't be <em>welcome</em> in Princeton. Really.</p>
<p>give it a rest. you've advised people who've expressed any sort of trepidation at the size and pervasive competitiveness of harvard that they'd probably be better served elsewhere. guess they don't fit the single-minded, cutthroat "harvard type."</p>
<p>You are right, as usual, scottie: people who fear competition should avoid Harvard, just as people who like Big Macs should avoid Princeton.</p>