More Freakonomics: Life Upon the Wicked Stage

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>I agree with lots that amtc wrote. Yes, these young actors need a way to support themselves. However, many of my D’s decisions in terms of projects she gets involved in are not motivated by money. Rather, she chooses various things more for artistic reasons and career purposes, than for money. She makes sure she also has other things going on that will bring in the dough at the same time (example, her current “survival” job is being a part time faculty member at a BFA in MT program and in fact, she turned down consideration there for full time to not be too booked up so that she can pursue her artistic endeavors). By the way, my D doesn’t do commercials. Her interests lie elsewhere. Yes, they can be lucrative. Her BF recently did two national commercials and it paid very well and takes very little time. He is an actor but not in MT. My D has recently been cast in an Off Broadway musical (since that was mentioned in the example above) and she surely is taking the offer for artistic/career purposes alone, though of course it does pay, but not that high. In her case, she has money coming in from other things such as commissions for writing musicals too and so it all works out in terms of financial support. She sometimes performs in things in NYC for no pay, but the artistic opportunities are the attraction. Money doesn’t drive her career decisions. She makes sure to have jobs to support herself (hers happen to all be in music and theater) while pursuing performance work and she’ll take performance work no matter the amount of the salary.</p>

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<p>@amtc - I have actually read lots of books on this subject, including, but not limited to, “Making It on Broadway,” “Wait 'til the Fat Lady Sings,” “Unnaturally Green,” “Letters to a Young Actor,” “Letters from Backstage…” and so forth. These books are really great, but are generally just anecdotal in nature. I guess it is a right-brain vs. left-brain thing, but I like to know the actual facts. Based on my experience in the business world, it really pays to understand the overall context, trends, and fiscal realities in order to make solid, informed decisions. For example, it would not seem prudent to rely solely on the advice of an agent, generalities that could be out of date, or on some anecdotes that may not apply to a specific situation.</p>

<p>But I get it that some people don’t like facts and figures.</p>

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<p>^^I am terrible at facts/figures and that’s exactly why I greatly appreciate your posts, EmsDads. It’s another very helpful lens onto the whole business that I would not have access to without this information. We definitely have a responsibility to help our kids balance their artistic ambitions with the need to stay solvent. Whether it’s making commercials, capitalizing on musicianship, teaching, or waitressing, they will need to figure out how to put together a sustainable life that lets them both eat and make art! My son is already thinking toward teaching and stage combat/fight choreography as ways he could expand his marketable skill set. I respect his realism as much as I do his passion for acting.</p>

<p>And by the way…most visual artists are in the same boat…almost every serious photographer I know has ended up shooting weddings in order to make a living. </p>

<p>Again, thanks for the reality check!</p>

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<p>I think the facts and figures are helpful in the sense for those who are entering this field or considering degrees in the field to get a handle on the realities of it. That information, combined with anecdotes of those who are in the field or recent grads, etc. can help those who perhaps have “stars in their eyes” (such as high school kids who have dreams of being on Broadway as the goal) to get a reality check as to how a life in the arts may unfold.</p>

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<p>^^Exactly! The more sources of ideas and information–not to mention the most valuable thing about CC, which is individual stories–the better!</p>

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<p>My D has discovered that being a professional tour guide is a very profitable way to combine performance skills with her love of history - and make very nice tips as a side benefit. And she sets her own hours so she can arrange her schedule for auditions and rehearsals. Of course, she lives in DC, so there’s a big call for that kind of thing. But, everyone in the arts needs to have that sort of creativity when it comes to paying the bills.</p>

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<p>EmsDad, I’m not hostile to your thoughts but it’s important that you understand the dynamics of this industry. There really are no actual facts in this business. Yes, I suppose you can get the stats from the unions but be careful as they can be misleading and are just a small part of the whole picture. As has been stated here there are non-union jobs which are not included, the numbers are averages which are also quite warped, there are all sorts of union jobs which are tiered salary-wise and so complicated even Producers have difficulty plodding through them, there are tours and cruises which include room and board which complicates the stats, etc. </p>

<p>My second thought, and this is just my opinion, is that this is one of the reasons your kid is going to college in this major - they will learn this far better and more accurately than you will. In four years they will know what this business entails both financially and artistically. Once they graduate they will, hopefully, have professionals who will work with them - agents, managers, cds, coaches, etc. These are the people they will rely on for information and opinions. </p>

<p>Like my husband, you must come to terms with the idea that this business is unlike most other businesses in so many ways. Everyone knows it’s a tough business and few make any real kind of money in it, but it’s more complicated than that. There is no real direct route to the top, talent is not enough. A character actor will unlikely succeed until he/she is older, an ingenue can be earning a great income right out of college and then “disappear” in 10 - 15 years. Rejection is constant, auditioning becomes the job, not acting. Will your child need help from you? Probably, but less so in the actual professional aspect of this business because few understand it if they are not involved in it. It is an illogical profession. She’ll need your emotional support and perhaps some advice early on should she be enticed by a shady enterprise or person (which happens too often). </p>

<p>If it helps you to delve into statistical financial details and makes you feel better, then fine, go ahead. I’m just trying to alert you to the fact that from a professional point of view, it will be of little help to your daughter.</p>

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<p>@amtc: believe it or not, most businesses are complicated, industry numbers always only present a limited view of an industry, the path to success in any field is usually complicated, salary and price structures are generally always convoluted, etc., etc. I know people who are investors in Tony-award winning shows, people who were Broadway stars/stage managers/lighting designers, people who went on from Broadway to head up theatre departments at colleges, etc. My brother is a professional composer/arranger with some theatre credits as a musical director. Everyone that I talk to recommends learning as much about the business aspects and facts of the industry as possible.</p>

<p>There are plenty of pertinent facts about the industry. Its not black magic. Certainly the “big picture” aspects of the business are clear and relevant - more money is made in commercials than any other part of the industry, the amount of non-union earnings is a small percentage of the industry, etc.</p>

<p>It is an absolute fact that the Equity numbers constitute the vast majority of earnings from stage acting.</p>

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<p>To help our D answer some practical questions and to acclimate her to NYC she attended “Springboard” (through the American Theater Wing - who do the Tonys and many other things). She found it invaluable and found that the professionals they were able to meet (casting agents, directors, actors such as Christian Borle and Nina Arianda, Springboard pros, directors including Kathleen Marshall, and many many more) gave them amazing and practical advice. Finances, living in NYC, getting “day” jobs, finding a place to live… all covered realistically. She reported that it was a fantastic 10 days- not to mention that they saw most of the best plays on Broadway as part of the workshop. Just FYI - perhaps this could help some other kids!</p>

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<p>@amtc - by the way, there are lots of seemingly “illogical” businesses and business models - any of the “Veblen Goods” markets are classic examples (designer clothes, high end cars, etc.), and these are subject to great scrutiny by the numbers.</p>

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<p>Springboard is a fabulous program oregontheatermom. I highly recommend it! (We live in NY so it wasn’t relevant to my daughter.)</p>

<p>EmsDad - as I stated in another thread - I am a bit ornery today, so I do apologize because I’m not disagreeing with you, I just think you are putting too much emphasis on specific numbers and statistics. </p>

<p>I do have to ask, are you speaking of non-union film/tv or non-union stage? Non-union stage is a large part of the industry but pays much less so it may appear to be statistically a small part. Non-union film/tv is a small part but is also a great beginning for many because of “alternate” media that the unions have not yet worked out.</p>

<p>Yes, more money is made in national commercials but it can also ruin an actors career for many years. For example, the actor who plays “Flo” for an insurance company; she’s making lots of money but it will be a long time until she is no longer associated with that commercial and it will therefore be a long time until she can “move on” to something less profitable but more rewarding in her career. I am pretty certain that she never expected such great success and long term contracts when this campaign began. Now she may be quite happy in such a lucrative situation, she may not be. All I’m saying, is that the acting profession is rarely about the money and there have been many debates as to whether a commercial contract like “Flo” is in is a positive or negative to her career. </p>

<p>I’m done with this debate, just remember in four to six years, the numbers you researched will have little effect on your daughters career.</p>

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<p>Interesting discussion. I am fascinated by the data and thank you for sharing it emsdad. I also think amtc is in general, correct.</p>

<p>The work statistics are interesting on the whole and have next to nothing to do with the outcome for an individual and I think that is what amtc is saying. Much the same way that knowing how slim the specific odds are for a student to get into a particular MT program. The existence of admission odds have absolutely no relevance whatsoever to a specific kid who does get in nor to a specific kid that does not get in. If there was only 1 spot in a program that only 2 kids apply to (50% odds) , and 1 kid gets the spot and the other does not, it doesn’t mean that the kid who did not get the spot would have gotten it if there were 9 spots and 10 applying (90% favorable odds). Maybe that particular kid would still have been out.</p>

<p>It sounds like the post graduation working world works the same way as it does in any line of work but other lines of work may have a more favorable demand/supply ratio.</p>

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<p>I hear what amtc is saying, and respect her point of view–but I really like having the data and appreciate emsdad’s posts a lot. These sorts of things help me and help me advise my children. My kids may not listen to me at the time (!), but whatever. This is how I think. Everyone approaches a problem in different ways. This is how I approach a problem. I like to analyze pros and cons, know what I"m up against, and know where I have the best chances. THis helps me frame what I need to do to get there. </p>

<p>In this case, the ‘problem’ is how to be a working professional actor–But what does that mean to you? Everyone will have a different definition. For instance, should you try to live on the salary if you can get it? I disagree that people don’t approach acting for money or that it’s not a motivating factor. Sure, it’s an art, and sure that comes first. But why wouldn’t money be a motivating factor? That’s one reason you have agents, to negotiate a deal to your best advantage. </p>

<p>I do know working actors, a few on B’way. None of them are rich. One has the very good fortune of having a wealthy model-wife. But many are living through their art, which is my own children’s goal. They certainly take money into consideration. Obviously, if you choose to be an artist, you are not motivated <em>primarily</em> by money. But you do have to eat and pay the rent and car insurance. It’s nice to see the stats and know that, for instance, commercials pay so well. I knew this before (my own S got as much in a bit part of an in house commercial shot in one day, than he has for a whole run of a professional play)–but these stats put things front and center for me. If you know that commercials pay well, then you can see if you’re commercial material, take audition lessons if necessary, and hone your connections there. It’s one more ‘card’ you have.</p>

<p>Is that how everyone works? No. But this business IS a business. It has business qualities just like any business. It is complicated by the fact that different actors have vastly different goals, so each person will have his/her own business model. Some actors are not after money at all and support themselves through a day job. Others become working professionals after doing another job for decades. But if your goal is to be a working professional actor, I feel it helps to have the data so you can make informed decisions. Many young actors think that it’s only about talent, and if they are talented enough, and if they keep auditioning, ‘something’ will happen and they’ll succeed. This can happen, of course–but if you have a strategy, and work on marketing and other business goals, you can increase your chances. It’s not predictable by any means, and the vast majority cannot live off their income–which is what emsdad shows (which is good data, again, for me to have). But for me, it does help for me to know the data.</p>

<p>I think amtc’s point is also that you can over-emphasize the data or view it too simplistically. And that’s definitely true. You have to be careful. It is only one component. But I do like seeing it, if only to just add another tool to help with the difficult process of living through your art.</p>

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<p>I understand where amtc is coming from writing that understanding the context of the odds of success doesn’t directly aid someone in being a better performer; however, understanding odds/risk in a quantitative vs. subjective way is very important for a lot of people. Simply stating “this is a tough business” isn’t good enough for a lot of us. EmsDad, much appreciated all the work you do for I need the context you bring.</p>

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<p>I love this thread and the many like it. I’ve just recently discovered CC and now cannot pry myself away from the laptop! Learning so much. Thank you so very much to Ems dad and the many others who post here for the wealth of analysis, experience and knowledge you all bring. I hope one day to be able to add my own. I am at the very beginning of this process and it will be interesting to see where my dd lands in say 10 years. </p>

<p>I have already learned first hand though an acquaintance that getting in to the “right” school guarantees nothing but annual tuition.</p>

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<p>The University of Oklahoma nicely posts year-by-year listings of their MT alums from 2001-2012. Almost 100 summaries are listed and the data presents an interesting snapshot into the post-college world for MT grads:</p>

<p>Regional/Local Theatre 38%
National Tour 13%
Producer/Director/Playwright/Choreographer 7%
Theatre Administration 7%
Theatre Education 5%
TV/Film 5%
Broadway 5%
Cruise Ships 5%
Non-Theatre 4%
Off Broadway/Developing Theatre 3%
Other Performer 3%
Other Non-Specific 2%
Pop Music 2%
TOTAL **96 **</p>

<p>Not all alums are listed. As you might expect, the older grads are more likely to list administrative and non-theatre jobs and the younger grads list more tours. The posts are more like snapshots than a listing of achievements, and so do not completely represent the career paths of the alums.</p>

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<p>There have been several posts in various threads here on the MT forum about the harsh realities of trying to raise a family as an actor (and sometimes as a pair of actor-parents). Sharon Wheatley, author of “'Til the Fat Girl Sings” (CCM, veteran of Phantom, Cats, and Avenue Q), writes an incredibly open, honest blog about the life of a parent-actor in NYC. Here is an excerpt from a post that I found to be very poignant (it is against CC rules to post a link to a blog but you can easily find it through google):</p>

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Sharon announced on her blog in March that her family is moving to LA.</p>

<p>Now I know people will say, “of course, everyone knows this” but it really hits home, for me anyway, to read a first-person account of someone who is living the life.</p>

<p>It makes a sort of coda for Making It on Broadway.</p>

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<p>LA ain’t so cheap either!</p>

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<p>Every smart actor I know multi-sources jobs. The AEA numbers are a bit misleading. Many AEA actors are University Professors - they don’t work as actors, but keep AEA for tenure purposes. Those people earn great livings in the theater. Many SAG/AFTRA are also AEA - if you book enough TV gigs, or audition for enough movies, you don’t have time for a long run of a play - many of these people make great livings.<br>
I have a great actress friend who lives in the mountains - she does one play, at a summer stock each summer - the rest of the year she raises her children and her husband works at a very well paying job. She could work more…she chooses not to.
I know actors who won’t take AEA jobs outside of NYC, and sometimes, specifically Broadway or Off-Broadway.</p>

<p>Numbers are misleading. The entertainment industry is one of the biggest industries in the world. If you can network and multitask you have a great chance to make a living in the field.</p>

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<p>I don’t think the numbers are misleading at all. The idea in the OP was, “how hard is it to make a living on stage?” I think no matter how many caveats you think of to put on the numbers, it still comes out to be really, really difficult to make a living on stage.</p>

<p>One important factor - its a zero-sum game with way too many people chasing too few roles. Whether they are supported by spouses, teaching college, or working in Hollywood, if they successfully re-entered the pool of full-time stage actors they would not expand the job market, they would just displace a working actor. Even if there is 100 percent overlap in Equity and SAG/AFTRA membership, there are still way too many actors chasing too few opportunities on stage (Equity membership is only 20% of the combined total of SAG/AFTRA and Equity). If every single degree granting institution in the USA (less than 5,000) had 4 Equity members on faculty (highly unlikely), it would not amount to half of the Equity membership (so at best your odds might then be 50:1 instead of 100:1 if this were truly a major factor).</p>

<p>Of course, there are myriad ways to piece together a living in the entertainment industry and have a wonderful, fulfilling career, but the odds are it is not going to be working full time as a stage actor (or screen actor, either).</p>