How competitive is the environment at UPenn? What is it like?
What is the social scene? How prevalent is greek life?
@brownbound7 Penn is competitive in the sense that people are very ambitious, highly energetic and like to excel in many different things. They are notably focused in depth in their academic area of interest, but also like to get involved in research, volunteering initiatives, join student organizations, are very motivated to get top summer internship or research positions and also manage to maintain a very active social life. Penn students are competitive with themselves not against each other.
The students are friendly and they do collaborate and help out each other with schoolwork and recruiting.
Penn is known as the social ivy because it has a very active and vibrant social life. Greek life is a big part of Penn but it is not dominant, there are so many other things to do at Penn, other types of organizations to join and also Philly as a city offers a lot in term of social life.
Greek life is pretty big. Freshman - mid-sophomore year is mainly all frat parties (only way to get alcohol). Afterwards, most people diverge into their own thing. A lot of people join frats and continue/heighten that life style. It is not necessary to join for a fulfilling life but most always to make friends you need to join a club or activity.
Competition here is fierce (not so in the Humanities). It really comes to bear with recruiting. Basically all around stressful, a lot of people feel coerced into doing consulting/finance. It’s very pre-professional. The curve will wreck you. You will feel bad. GPA is not inflated.
@humanbean12 you are grossly exaggerating. Penn does not have the grade inflation of Harvard or Brown but it is still more inflated than places like Cornell, Columbia and Princeton.
During our visit the engineering students described the environment as more collaborative than competitive. Hope that’s true. Had not realized it is competitive to get into clubs. I think my DS is interested in PennApps, robotics, maybe being an IT assistant. Wonder if there is an active IEEE club.
@CA1543 yes that is an accurate description. The environment is collaborative. What is competitive is people with themselves. Thy like pushing themselves and trying to do many things as well as they can. But here is definitely a collaborative environment and people are willing to help out each other and collaborate. Regarding the competitivenes of getting into na club it vastly depends on the club. If a person has a genuine and demonstrated interested in a certain area then can can find a club in their area of interest.
@humanbean12 I understand a lot of your perspective, especially since it is Finals week.
However, I don’t understand why you feel coerced into finance or consulting?
Also, many clubs are open to anyone.
No one has yet posted data. Here is some:
Mental Health/Climate report: https://billypenn.com/2015/02/23/experts-students-mystified-by-penn-suicide-task-forces-change-the-culture-mandate-how-exactly-do-you-do-that/
(Note, UPenn has not released the results of the survey, just the conclusions. This is disappointing.)
UPenn Sexual Violence Climate Survey: http://www.upenn.edu/ir/surveys/AAU/Report%20and%20Tables%20on%20AAU%20Campus%20Climate%20Survey.pdf (lots of data here, a very comprehensive survey)
UPenn Greek life:
Historical article: https://penncurrent.upenn.edu/2012-03-15/record/record-fraternities-and-sororities
Statistics: look at past UPenn Common Data Set reports, and here’s an example: http://www.upenn.edu/ir/Common%20Data%20Set/UPenn%20Common%20Data%20Set%202013-14.pdf (go to page 17).
% of undergrads in greek life has been ticking up at UPenn, recently. In 2013-14, 31% of men and 28% of women were involved.
Links to all frat/sor: http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/ofsl/greeklife_chapters.php
Brandeis study on UPenn student life: https://www.brandeis.edu/ssri/noteworthy/upenn.html (this focuses on Jewish life, but it’s a good study - one that shows how different groups of people fit in. Interestingly, by ethnic group, 30-33% of black students, asian students, and hispanic students don’t feel like they fit in at UPenn. A minority, of course, but more than some might expect.)
If @Penn95 and others will permit me a moment to provide color commentary (but, of course, I will NOT compare Penn to other schools) on the above data:
Penn is a deeply complicated place, and one that faces myriad cultural problems as a function of its size and decentralized structure. Penn’s residential experience is varied and, as the data suggests, there is less of a “familial” feel to the college - it is large, and it feels large. Interestingly, in the mental health report, there was no recommendation to bolster residential/dorm support for students, as this isn’t typically a strong area for the school. Rather, Penn is pouring more support into its more clinical, administrative support structures - the counseling office, student health office, Division of Public Safety, etc. The expansion of these offices adds to the “large” feel of the place.
To any incoming student, I say: know yourself, and, just as importantly, know “your people.” When you get to Penn, work hard to find “your people.” Don’t be afraid to branch out, and try new things, but always have a “home base.” For some, the home base is the Kelly Writers House. For others, its their themed house/dorm, and for still others, its a certain club or sub-network. Whatever it is, work hard to find it, because when you come to Penn, you won’t find a necessarily familial environment. You’re going to a school that’s as large as a small city, with a lot of people who are in a rush to succeed - don’t forget that, and learn how to operate within such an environment.
@cue7 "To any incoming student, I say: know yourself, and, just as importantly, know “your people.” When you get to Penn, work hard to find “your people.” Don’t be afraid to branch out, and try new things, but always have a “home base.” For some, the home base is the Kelly Writers House. For others, its their themed house/dorm, and for still others, its a certain club or sub-network. "
This is good advice. I will add to it with some recommendations of my own.
- Everyone is friendless on day one. You don't make friends in 5 minutes, but many of these people will become friends over time if you make a first step here. Everyone is the most open to making new friends early on. Make the most of that opportunity. Go to the pre-orientation activities. Put yourself out there, be friendly, introduce yourself, remember faces and names, engage the other students, ask them questions, listen more, talk less, and don't try to impress them by talking about your achievements.
- Join more clubs and activities than you want to be involved in. Some are great, some are boring. Join several and attend them. You can only find the ones that you really like by going. As you get more involved in the good ones, trim back on the uninteresting ones.
- Find groups that offer mentoring by upperclassmen. For example, the Women In Computer Science group will assign upperclass mentors to freshmen. These upperclassmen can be an invaluable resource both to guide you in your major and also in finding your peeps socially. Learn from their experience.
- There is a significant pre-professional bent at Penn and 45% of the students are in Wharton, SEAS, and nursing. Often these students are very talented, sometimes incredibly talented, but they may not want to have to go to grad school immediately. They want to be able to get a good job after 4 years, and then make a decision on grad school later. They are often planning their next steps from day 1.
A Wharton student may bring up linkedin profiles, or internship plans, or ask other freshman what your plans are after you graduate. This may seem odd to a liberal arts major who thinks they are there to get an education. A liberal arts major may be more interested talking about Classic Latin, the destruction of Carthage, a book they just read, or music. From my observations, the students who benefit the most from Penn are the students who learn to take in all of it.
My D is in SEAS and loves technology. A Wharton student convinced her to create a linkedin profile by the middle of freshman year. She hasn’t really needed one, but the good thing is that she has continued to update it once or twice per year, and accumulate information that she might have forgotten. She has also continued to build connections to her Penn friends on Linkedin, and those connects may be helpful in the future. All of that information is captured for the future. Also, when there are career fairs or internship opportunities, the more pre-professional students often make other students aware of opportunities they may have been oblivious to. These students were very helpful to her early on. The point is that there can be value to being award of at least some of the basic pre-professional discussion.
I agree that many friends come from clubs and common interests, but students are all jumbled up at Penn. Often the friends students make in the dorms or activities are students with not much in common on paper, but who find that their personalities mesh. My D’s closest friends cut across schools. They all learn to appreciate the knowledge and abilities of friends who have different interests or abilities from them.
@Cue7
You are in interesting guy. Some of the things you are saying make perfect sense. Other things are questionable at best.
I am not sure why you think that the percent of students in greek life is “ticking up”? The 2014-2015 data set shows 30% of men and 27% of women in greek life. the 2015-2016 data set appears to omit the percent for men but the number for women is still 27%.
http://www.upenn.edu/ir/Common%20Data%20Set/UPenn%20Common%20Data%20Set%202014-15.pdf
What am I saying that’s questionable?
Re greek life - I mean ticking up from the past. The Penn Current article had greek life involvement, historically, at 20-25%. Now, it seems a little closer to 30%.
(Also, to add to my past post, OP, if you’re coming to Penn, I encourage you to do some of your own research on finance/consulting (and maybe technology) industries before coming to Penn. Before you know, a chunk of the population will be talking about “being an analyst” or “being a consultant,” and many have no idea what that means, or the type of work it entails.
You can look up some info here: http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/library/
Also, Vault.com has some good articles on this, and Penn may have a subscription students can use. Read the materials.
There are some good (but slanted) books on this too, like this: https://www.amazon.com/Young-Money-Streets-Post-Crash-Recruits-ebook/dp/B00CO7GH54/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1493742961&sr=8-2&keywords=kevin+roose
Before you know it, certain industries are going to be hosting receptions, and it’s easy to get swept up in it.
The best advice I can give Penn students is: know yourself, and do your due diligence (on anything - joining a frat, taking a summer job, going to CAPS, etc.).