More on Harvard/Princeton cross-admit story

<p>prepster05:</p>

<p>Does this kind of a kids profile is dimes a dozen in Andover? We are trying to evaluate my son's chance and would like to know if he can compete or majority of the prep school kid have higher achievement profile thus no chance for a public school kid who is looking for a financial aid? My assumption is based that if there are many kids then college will pick up a kid who can pay full freight rather than waste resource on a kid who needs financial aid.</p>

<p>So be honest even if truth is going to hurt us. We would like to make a different strategy on your valuable insight as we would like to gauge does he have any kind of a chance at all. Thanks in advance.</p>

<p>Redstar,</p>

<p>You should post your question to Byerly on the Harvard board. Just put the title of your question as the title of the message, say Byerly, etc etc.</p>

<p>redstar, we'd need your child's GPA and SAT scores to even make a guess about chances. But the Ivies really, truly will not care whether or not you can pay.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Highest 10 in FTE endowment / FY2004
1 Rockefeller University (New York, NY) $7,192,529
2 Princeton University (Princeton, NJ) $1,492,065
3 Harvard University (Cambridge, MA) $1,225,639
4 Yale University (New Haven, CT) $1,133,431
5 Leland Stanford Junior University (Stanford, CA) $744,618
6 California Institute of Technology (Pasadena, CA) $602,217
7 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Cambridge, MA) $580,479
8 Emory University (Atlanta, GA) $361,913
9 Washington University (St. Louis, MO) $361,067
10 Northwestern University (Evanston, IL) $276,703

[/quote]

Byerly, where did Rice go? In 2000, they were reporting $800K per FTE.</p>

<p>Oh yes, MIT lost two to Stanford and one to Yale.</p>

<p>His reputed public school does not rank but he is in top 10%. If you take the course load (AP sciences including Bio and Chemistry, AP Euro, AP BC Calculus) and GPA may be the top 1 or 2 kid in the school (I am simply guessing based on hint by GC). He took SAT 1 in 8th grade and scored more than 1480 (top 5 kids in USA on SAT for Junior High 740 verbal and 740 in math). PSAT 230. He will be taking SAT in October. He has multiple 800 in SAT II and 5 in APs (He is expecting 5 ina all Aps in 11th grade or he achieved it in 10th grade). We just found out that he just won an additional $10,000 award from a competition. Thus, total scholarships money now around $25,000 since 9th grade.</p>

<p>he seems to be excelling in his present school, why would he change? he has outstanding academic achievements, but of course they also look at other things. on his current course, i think he would fare fine staying at his public school.</p>

<p>In short, Byerly, HYPSM totaled 66 offers of admission to Andover students this year. 48 Andover students will go to HYPSM. If you dont include the 3 students who defected to non HYPSM schools and take into account the 3 people who got into 3 HYPSM schools, that means that there were merely 12 people-out of 48-who were cross admits at HYPSM from Andover this year.</p>

<p>The biggest loser was Stanford.</p>

<p>P05, u asked me why did I post this AE admit data. You wasted your time so long. HYP is there there is no HYPSM.</p>

<p>Baba-there is a considerable east coast bias in NE prep schools. The same bias for Stanford exists on the west coast.</p>

<p>Prepster - I'd put the overlap at 30% or so, which is pretty damn high considering the large number of EA/ED admits and the minisucle RD admit rate at HYPSM.. I'd assume the overlap in APPS was a least twice that high - conservatively.</p>

<p>Can you reconcile those Stanford numbers for me? ie, Original admits, less defection losses (to where) plus defection gains (from where)?</p>

<p>When a kid gets into all 3 (HYS) thats a double overlap situation the way these stats are figured. If, for example, the kid chose Harvard, that was a cross-admit "loss" for both Yale and Stanford.</p>

<p>Likewise, its a Stanford/Harvard cross admit even if the kid who gor into both went to MIT instead.</p>

<p>12 out of 48 is far 25 percent. Considering that this is for five of the most applied to schools, I would say that that is not high at all. If you take Stanford out of the equation, the percentage is even less.</p>

<p>I agree, the overlap in apps is considerable. But it is an interesting phenomenon that, even given the immense overlap in apps, the overlap in admits was so small. It tells you something about how much of a crap shoot it really is when applying from a place like Andover.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The new Harvard number is 19-4 were admitted off the waitlist. Remarkably, 17 are going (I think. One defected to Yale, the other to Columbia). 9 People are going to Yale-2 were lost to Harvard, 1 to MIT, 2 to Stanford, 1 to Princeton. 6 are going to Princeton (princeton lost one to Penn).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Prepster, if these data are true (and I am sure, Byerly would shred them, if they weren't) they do indeed drive your point home that there are few cross admits in the top group: 3 HY (out of 34), 1YP (out of 22), no HP (out of 26).</p>

<p>Byerly, this brings me back to my earlier question how much cross admits P would be losing to H - you hinted at the fact that my estimate "between 50 and 100" looked too low.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'd put the overlap at 30% or so

[/quote]
</p>

<p>66 admissions overall for HYPSM
minus 3 non HYPSM "defectors"
minus 22 early admits (see Byerly data, who - according to Prepster's claim -did not apply anywhere else)</p>

<p>= 41 RD admissions </p>

<p>for 26 RD applicants (= 48 going, including the deferred ones, minus 22 accepted early)</p>

<p>subtracting the 3 "triple admissions": 41-3=38 "simple" RD cross admissions</p>

<br>


<br>

<p>PS: We had identified from Prepster's data earlier that out of those 12 crossadmits (including the "triple" admits) only 4 were HYP crossadmits. Could be consistent with his remark, that Stanford lost out most. Possibly also some M cross admissions for the P admits?</p>

<p>Proves my point which I made here and Stanford board. In RD SF gets HYP admit types in to loose them, then show a high cross admit data.</p>

<p>No Baba, it doesn't. Stanford has to compete with the East Coast bias, legacy system, the old boys' network and so on. Stanford competes very well with HYPM and this data shows that. So what if they lose to Harvard? Everyone does. For science & tech., Stanford regularly wins against Y and P.</p>

<p>For Andover kids: Stanford is second tier like Duke, NWU and JHU, Just look 40 applicants similar to these schools.</p>

<p>The more money you have, the better school you build.
Thus Harvard gets some credit for being the "richest" university.
But I think Other schools also have their distinctive qualities that sometimes outrank that of Harvard.
It is hard to campare them out of "context"</p>

<p>
[quote]
Highest 10 in FTE endowment / FY2004
1 Rockefeller University (New York, NY) $7,192,529
2 Princeton University (Princeton, NJ) $1,492,065
3 Harvard University (Cambridge, MA) $1,225,639
4 Yale University (New Haven, CT) $1,133,431
5 Leland Stanford Junior University (Stanford, CA) $744,618
6 California Institute of Technology (Pasadena, CA) $602,217
7 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Cambridge, MA) $580,479
8 Emory University (Atlanta, GA) $361,913
9 Washington University (St. Louis, MO) $361,067
10 Northwestern University (Evanston, IL) $276,703

[/quote]

From the Rice website:
"Rice ranked fifth in 2003 for private research universities in amount of endowment assets (more than $640,500) per full-time equivalent (FTE) student (according to FY03 numbers) . The market value for Rice’s endowment was $2.94 billion as of June 30, 2003."
I haven't found more recent numbers, but the list is most likely wrong.</p>