More STEM Wisdom from a LAC Professor

I agree that E majors tend to not have the same distribution requirements as other majors. But that is school specific, though. It’s interesting about Dartmouth. I think they should man up (Person up?). Engineering majors at the service academies have to take 4 years of English, Bio, Chem, Physics, the usual math, Philosophy, 3(?) years of history, Econ, Management, foreign language… Or you could say non-engineering majors have to take all those, plus their majors and 6 engineering courses. It makes for a busy four years but no real five year track.

And kids at the service academies have a ton of physical activity requirements. Probably won’t find a lot of regular college student kids willing to sign up for that. Especially the engineering kids.

…are beasts. They are freaks of nature and just not like us regular folk, thank goodness! :slight_smile:

I wonder if the service academies have weed out classes for engineering majors like most big state school do.

Big E major here. Even 30 years ago as I was getting my BSCE, I was requried to take English Composition, Economics, Technical Writing, and two Literature and History electives. 15 credits worth out of, IIRC, what was a 128 credit degree program. I say make majors within the humanities take Diff Eq. :slight_smile:

It brings back a memory of a dialog that happened in my English Lit class that I was taking the Summer I finished my undergrad degree. Adjunct went off on something in the written work we were studying, and said something to the effect of: “this is what is most important to learn, not the technical stuff taught in engineering school”. Someone in the class retorted: “if it wasn’t for engineers you’d be teaching this in a cave!”.

Many service academy graduates or attendees IME recounted engineering as one area which tends to weed out cadets*…not just engineering majors.

This is because every cadet regardless of major must take a minimum number of engineering courses when they attended in the '70s till the late '90s.

Also, I read somewhere that a 2.8 cumulative GPA in an engineering major would place a cadet at one FSA in the top third or higher of his/her graduating engineering major class.

  • If they fail too many courses or don't make sufficient academic progress each semester, cadets are liable to be brought before an academic review board and if they feel it necessary, dismiss the cadet from the academy for academic reasons. Knew a few former FSA attendees to whom this has happened.

However, some of the schools most known for being heavy in engineering majors have extensive H/SS requirements.

For example, MIT requires 8 subjects (= courses; this is about 25% of the total bachelor’s degree curriculum) in humanities, social studies, and arts, with at least one course in each of these areas, and a concentration in an area that includes at least some more advanced courses. http://catalog.mit.edu/mit/undergraduate-education/general-institute-requirements/#hassrequirementtext

Harvey Mudd requires 11 humanities, social studies, and arts courses (about 26% of the total curriculum). One is a specific required course (HSA 10). The others must include five different subjects, and a 4 course concentration in one of them. https://www.hmc.edu/hsa/wp-content/uploads/sites/25/2014/01/Concept-Map-of-Requirements-111414.pdf

Regarding math and science general education for H/SS majors, schools like MIT and the service academies are among the few where H/SS majors have to take for general education the more rigorous math and science courses that math and science majors take. At most schools, less rigorous math and science courses (“physics for poets” type) are typically offered for general education requirements.

I remember seeing my roommates non-science major chemistry book. Was eye opening. Survey type course with very little detailed understanding.

As and aside, I think that to teach high school classes (particularly math and science) you should have at least a minor in the subject (and preferably a degree in it).

Theoretically, many school districts officially DO have the requirement that teachers must at least have an undergrad major in the subject they’re to teach.

However, considering the pay, working conditions, and the level of respect/social status accorded to K-12 teachers in our society lags far behind many other occupational fields…especially those in certain high demand STEM specialties, many K-12 school districts have had to relax those requirements to ensure there are enough teachers for the core courses.

One disturbing example of this was illustrated on a PBS TV program about the realities of K-12 teaching in disadvantaged urban and rural areas of the US.

Because there was such a shortage of math & science teachers, the district had no choice but to place anyone available to fill math/science teacher slots…including teachers whose majors were not only in non-STEM fields…but also whose math/science skills were so limited that some were barely a couple of chapters ahead of their class.

Salaries and working conditions vary by district and by state as does any requirement for a degree in the subject being taught. I know several suburban districts with average pay north of $70k/year and benefit packages much better than private sector positions (including pensions which cannot be bankrupted) who do not require degrees in the subjects being taught. I can understand if you cannot hire them because of $$. But often, schools who could don’t. Unions typically don’t think its important. And would never pay premiums for math and science teachers. Instead lets pay premiums for teachers with masters in gym.

The article has interesting points that should consider. But there is no one “fit” right for all STEM students. As an engineer and mom of a recent engineering grad, I do like the current trend toward more project-oriented classes and integration of real-life challenges.

$70k/year even with great benefits but with the price of having to deal with student discipline, demanding students/parents, local/regional education department/district politics, etc may not sound nearly as compelling to many college graduates with many great options.

Especially STEM graduates as earning the same or more in a wide variety of jobs commanding higher status/respect from a critical mass of American society without having to deal with all those perceived minuses of K-12 teaching. Incidentally, $70k would have been on the lowish side for many STEM graduates I knew of other than bio straight out of college even 1-2 decades ago.

For instance, a friend who barely graduated with a high 2.x cumulative GPA in engineering/CS not too long after the worst effects of the dotcom bust had passed ~2005 managed to get a job with a starting salary of ~$80k. That’s not including benefits including stock options in lucrative corporate stock. He also doesn’t have to deal with student discipline of HS aged students, demanding HS students and their parents…especially outside school hours/PT meetings, local/regional education department/district politics, etc.