Most conservative colleges.

Applying to College
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<p>I'm glad this thread was started...</p>

<p>I'm not going to criticize the OP for wanting a college that s/he feels at home with. It's nice in the sense that, it seems, that when someone wants to attend a conservative college, people take it as being closed-minded, intolerant of other peoples' views, etc. etc. But really, people just want to be among like-minded people... It's human nature, and it happens on both of the liberal-conservative sides.</p>

<p>With that said, I think the overwhelming number of colleges are liberal. The exceptions are the military academies and religious institutions (like PCC, BJ, etc.). However, I would be careful to include schools that are only religiously affiliated. A lot of them seem to have a "live and let live" attitude, not really the "in your face" attitude the OP was talking about.</p>

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<p>Just to clarify a little, there are no female Jesuits. The Society of Jesus (the Jesuits), which is the order that is most often connected with higher education, is comprised of priests and brothers. There are no Jesuit nuns.</p>

<p>However, Jesuit universities today are hardly "men only" clubs. Although they are officially run by the Jesuits, the number of male and female professors is about equal at most of them. You are not being taught only by members of the order. In fact, lay professors -- male and female -- actually far outnumber the priests at most Jesuit universities today. As is the case with Jesuit elementary and high schools...</p>

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<p>fides et ratio -- sorry, I was careless in my response; you're exactly correct about the Jesuits, who are certainly the more renowned order of educators, and who do NOT have nuns, and I completely understood why you referenced "brilliant men." (There are, however, Dominican and Franciscan nuns; Santa Catalina School in Monterey is headed by two particularly noteworthy Dominican ladies :) ) And of course there are some excellent women's colleges headed by nuns -- but not, as you say, Jesuits.</p>

<p>Still, I thought it was just a teensy bit over the PC edge, because you might have taken the trouble to extend your reference to include "brilliant" lay women profs at Jesuit colleges. It just would have sounded a little nicer, don't you think? Maybe I should have let it pass, but it seemed a handy segue into my opinion about whether Catholic colleges qualified as "conservative."</p>

<p>Apparently some posters on the thread disagree violently with my definition of "conservative." But to me, maintaining a institutional policy requiring exclusively male leadership in the 21st century is a conservative stance.</p>

<p>However, if you believe that female profs have equity at Jesuit universities, I think you've been misled:</p>

<p>For example, see what ND itself has to say:
<a href="http://www.nd.edu/%7Ewatch/chap1.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nd.edu/%7Ewatch/chap1.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Women faculty are far fewer in number, lower in rank, less likely to achieve tenure, and much less likely to achieve full professor status. (Of course, as I suggested earlier, the Ivies were historically male bastions too, and since going coed they haven't done much better in balancing the faculty). Still, my point was simply that research shows major Catholic universities such as ND have further to go in terms of attaining gender equity, that this is a function of Vatican policy regarding the role of women in the Church, and thus BU, ND, etc., are more conservative than most secular colleges. Surely that's a reasonable take?</p>

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<p>"Still, I thought it was just a teensy bit over the PC edge, because you might have taken the trouble to extend your reference to include "brilliant" lay women profs at Jesuit colleges. It just would have sounded a little nicer, don't you think?"</p>

<p>Over the "PC" edge? Are you serious? Like, who cares? You can slice my earlier comment any which way you like, but I personally don't have much respect for political correctness today -- it's mostly a bunch of liberal BS. Sorry, but I don't tow their line.</p>

<p>"Still, my point was simply that research shows major Catholic universities such as ND have further to go in terms of attaining gender equity, that this is a function of Vatican policy regarding the role of women in the Church, and thus BU, ND, etc., are more conservative than most secular colleges. Surely that's a reasonable take?"</p>

<p>Yes, in that one area perhaps. And perhaps women should have a bigger role in the Church. But if you're implying that women should be ordained priests to correct the "problem," it is theologically impossible with the Catholic faith. The Pope does not have the power to do so, theologically speaking. The case has been closed.</p>

<p>This is the great thing about the Catholic Church, and one of the things that inspired me to choose Catholicism when I became a Christian. Unlike almost every other Church in Christendom, she has never buckled under political pressure to "get with the times," whatever that means. She is what she is, which is what she always was, which is what she always will be. The Church is a rock. This is not to say that the Church does not grow, but when she does, it is on her own terms and not because of liberal "PC" pressure.</p>

<p>If you want watered-down Christianity, choose a mainline Protestant Church. If you want pure, undiluted Christianity -- the real deal -- the Catholic Church will always be there. Thank God for that.</p>

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<p>fides, you've made a clear, coherent statement of your understanding regarding the conservative foundation of Catholic institutions such as Notre Dame. I couldn't have done better myself.</p>

<p>btw (and this may seem off-topic, but really isn't) when I worked for IBM in Toronto and my husband was in the U of T graduate program, we had a child in kindergarten and were struggling with just one income. IBM recognized my status as head of household and gave me a generous raise. BUT when I inquired about a technical customer support position, for which I was qualified and that paid better, I was told "women aren't eligible for the program." That was in 1973, when my "sisters" in the U.S. had won equal rights under the law (though still not in fact). Canadian corporations hadn't yet buckled under political pressure to "get with the times." My Toronto colleagues had no idea what I was talking about when I insisted IBM Canada was unfairly discriminating against women; the idea of gender equity hadn't yet made it into their consciousness.</p>

<p>So this is 2006, and Canadian society has evolved, though I think they're still a little behind the times -- perhaps a good thing, considering the times. U of T is no exception, so you might take that into consideration when you look out at the wider world.</p>

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<p>That's fine. Just don't expect the Church to follow society, to follow Caeser's orders, so to speak, when they infringe upon the faith. It won't budge an inch. The history of martyrdom in the Church is a testament to that. As a Christian, I would accept prison and/or death before I would compromise my faith for those who want to change it, to make it "easier" for people who don't really believe anyway. The way things are going in liberal Canada and in Europe, true Christians just might have to.</p>

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<p>Having said all of that above, however, Catholic universities -- especially North American Catholic universities -- are hardly mirrors of official Church/Vatican teaching, as are, often, unfortunately, the orders that run them, especially the Jesuits and the Dominicans. They basically do whatever they want with their universities; they own them, not the Vatican. The Pope can request that they do things, but he can't fire them if they don't. In most of the Catholic universities in North America that I have researched, dissent from Church teaching is rampant. Many Catholic universities have been almost totally secularized. </p>

<p>The only area that the Vatican has some power over in Catholic universities is graduate-level theology, and even there, it is limited. If a professor of Catholic theology who is clergy -- a licensed Catholic theologian -- teaches students ideas that are contrary to the faith and persists in doing so, he can be investigated and, if found guilty of teaching heresy, can be stripped of his license to teach Catholic theology. But even then, the theologian is not "fired"; he can continue to keep his job and teach theology. He just can't call it "Catholic" theology anymore, as it is not in line with the Catholic faith. Hans Kung was stripped for his dissenting views on papal infallibility back in the seventies, which he was teaching to his students, and he still holds the same position at his university that he always did and still teaches his dissenting views.</p>

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<p>Apparently some posters on the thread disagree violently with my definition of "conservative." </p>

<p>Violently?</p>

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<p>zoosermom, sorry, inappropriate word choice -- "violently disagree" wasn't really meant to imply dueling pistols at sunset, just a figure of speech; "vociferously" might be better, as in your statement: "I don't think subjugation of women has anything to do with conservatism. We're about individuals doing their thing however they choose, and subjugation isn't part of that. If anything, I think feminism pigeon-holes and artificially defines women." That was pretty emphatic disagreement.</p>

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<p>zoosermom, sorry, inappropriate word choice -- "violently disagree" wasn't really meant to imply dueling pistols at sunset, just a figure of speech; "vociferously" might be better, as in your statement: "I don't think subjugation of women has anything to do with conservatism. We're about individuals doing their thing however they choose, and subjugation isn't part of that. If anything, I think feminism pigeon-holes and artificially defines women." That was pretty emphatic disagreement.</p>

<p>Emphatic and vociferous -- absolutely. Violent? Absolutely not. I guess I took a bit of umbrage because I thought we were having such a nice, polite and above-board disagreement. I was looking at another thread where one poster used the s___bag word and that seemed violent to me, as opposed to high-minded folks like us!</p>