<p>What an interesting definition for drinking--letting kids be kids.</p>
<p>Like to meet you sometime on Thursday afternoons, I'm the one with flour all over me, and carrying another hot cookie sheet with all the midshipmen crowding around. Love to meet you, give you a MOM hug, and listen to your ideas. You sound interesting.</p>
<p>Well, I knew nothing of 1st class pub when I started this thread
Looks like a can of worms weve opened</p>
<p>Was it open last parents weekend ? If so, why didnt I see it ?
I could have used a frosty mug during that rain storm,</p>
<p>Now you need to be 21 to have a drink there. right ?
And whoevers in charge wouldnt serve someone who has had too many, right ?
And everyones bed is within walking distance.
And the Administration holds tight reigns over this operation, right ?</p>
<p>I dunno
Im at a quandary on this one</p>
<p>easy answer....as 1st class...they deserve their pub...better on campus than in a bar you have to drive to......gosh compare it to university campus's where booze is offered on campus at every frat house at most anytime.....lets get real here...no one is forcing a mid to drink and there is a real world out there.......</p>
<p>i tend to agree with that
at 21 right ?
so thats maybe 10% or less of students ?</p>
<p>Thus the reason that KP is NOT listed
as Stone Cold Sober as as all other academies are ?</p>
<p>an interesting difference
that opens the door to either
civilized relaxation and socialization
or abuse</p>
<p>whoever runs it
this is a very big responsibility
just do a first class job
everything by the book
as you ask our KPers to do
and deny anyone who abuses the priviledge</p>
<p>administration should be totally involved
totally responsible
and totally answerable for abuse of it
whatever happens
is the operators ultimate responsibility</p>
<p>this is surely a debatable issue</p>
<p>I don't know the answer to this, but it's an interesting question I think. Do the other federal academies have pubs on campus?</p>
<p>This is not just a regular college, this is one of the five federal academies in US. ( USMA, USCGA, USAFA, USNA, AND USMMA) </p>
<p>These are the students, selected from across United States, to be a cut above the others.</p>
<p>And the pubs are only accessable to 1/c who are over the age of 21, and by the age of 21, they can legally consume alcohol. They are not doing anything wrong.</p>
<p>as long as it HIGHLY regulated
by the administration (the responsible party here)
and all activity is completely within
the academys mission and honor code
and no negative effects are identified from
it existence</p>
<p>me doath not protest</p>
<p>is it mentioned on USMMA website ?
if not should be</p>
<p>don't see where it is in the website, but when we came for the admissions visit it was mentioned that there was such a thing for the 1c of legal drinking age.</p>
<p>Im figuring that
by1/c year
and 21st birthday
KPers
can handle this one
unless shown elsewise</p>
<p>be smart
Beat Navy</p>
<p>
<hr>
<p>I don't know the answer to this, but it's an interesting question I think. Do the other federal academies have pubs on campus?</p>
<p>This is not just a regular college, this is one of the five federal academies in US. ( USMA, USCGA, USAFA, USNA, AND USMMA) </p>
<p>These are the students, selected from across United States, to be a cut above the others.
</p>
<p>Why as a matter of fact they do have pubs on the other campuses.<br>
Sorry KPMOM, on this one I totally disagree with you. Let's think this through, the pub is open (this is how it was when I was there anyway) like once a week or less and only limited hours. It is only available to first class midshipmen who are over 21. Now, the people who are drinking at the pub are probably going to drink anyway, so.... the question is would you rather have them walking to a bar and to bed or would you rather have them driving? Unfortunately doing neither is not an option, and unfortunately drinking and driving is something that happens more than we would like to think.</p>
<p>You mention the midshipman who was killed drinking and driving....could have been prevented if he was drinking at the Midshipman pub that night. Now, do you really think it should be closed? The midshipmen will drink and to me it is much safer to have them drinking under the close supervision of the school and within walking distance of their bunks. Sorry, no drinking, on or off campus, isn't a plausible option.</p>
<p>On a second note:</p>
<p>What does drinking or not drinking have anything to do with being "a cut above the others"</p>
<p>Sorry, drinking isn't illegal, can be enjoyed, and there are some studies showing there may be some health benefits to moderate alcohol intake (unfortunately usually in red wine only)</p>
<p>On the Princeton Review, the other four federal academies are listed in the top twenty of "Stone-Cold Sober Schools". KP missed the mark. Do the other federal academies know something that this academy doesn't recognize yet? The social problems caused by drinking, merits not encouraging students to go in that direction.</p>
<p>INTRODUCING drinking to the midshipmen as normal, acceptable, and good is what I'm concerned about. We work with college students. Do you know what it's like to have a student introduced to alcohol, become an alcoholic? Do you know what it's like to hear of the messes the girls get into because of alcohol lowering their inhibitions?</p>
<p>KP2001, I'm sure you know that 1 in 10 people has a propensity towards alcoholism. Perhaps you are not one of those people, lucky for you. Many of these students tell of knowing what it's like to grow up in an alcoholic family. I did notice several interesting statements from you. "doing neither is NOT an option", and "NO drinking on or off campus ISN'T a plausible option" Seems to me that drinking is something that you find very important for yourself. </p>
<p>I believe that the administration, whose chief reason for being at the academy is to influence and guide the students, should have the approach of always being an example to the students. They should chose to give up things that will be a stumbling block to others, as part of their responsiblity to the school and students.</p>
<p>Yes, there will always be social problems. You wrote about drinking, "it is much safer to have them drinking under the close supervision of the school". With that logic I think it would be much safer to have them learning about other social problems also under the close supervision of the school. Under the close watchful eye of the administration we can hope for less damage. Drinking, drugs, gambling, prostitutes (female and male) will always be around. They just need to be introduced and supervised by the school. We don't fight them, we just keep it supervised, much safer. Oh, you object? That isn't the same thing at all, you say. Or is it? Perhaps the difference is that drinking is more socially acceptable than those other areas, for now.</p>
<p>Sorry KP2001, I very seldom ever talk or write about drinking. You did a "poke" and I couldn't resist "poking" back. I'm sure if we met, I'd like you.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Nope, not important to me at all. Not only do I not have time to drink these days (80hr work week, one day off in seven, and every fourth night spent awake at work will do that to you), but it's not something I go out of my way to do. Maybe at dinner I'll have a glass of wine once every couple of weeks or a beer when grilling, but it's a rare occurance. </p>
<p>I also have seen what drinking can do to a family with a strong history of alcoholism in my family. What I do find important is not allowing someone else to dictate what others should be able to do when that thing is legal. </p>
<p>I see daily what effects alcohol can have, in fact I have just finished working on a service where we had a 30 year old with alcoholic necrotizing pancreatitis be in the ICU for over 30 days and have the need for over two weeks of mechanical ventilation. We also had a long term alcoholic come in near death and yet another who has yet to fully wake up from a surgery that took place more than a week ago. </p>
<p>But what I also know is that drinking in moderation can be absolutely fine. Education in the topic is important; however, let's be realistic and not live in idealistic utopia where nobody DUI's and there is no underage drinking.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Some of these are different issues and some are not. Drugs is absolutely different as they are illegal. And so is gambling or prostitution if you aren't in Vegas or another area where it is illegal. Now if these were legal in the township of Kings Point would it not be safer for everyone involved to have close supervision and regulation? </p>
<p>I agree that we would probably agree more than disagree on a varying degree of topics; however, until prohibition version 2.0 comes around I will most likely stand on the other side of the fence from you on this issue.</p>
<p>KPMOM,</p>
<p>I would like to add that the Midshipman Pub (which is just part of Land Hall) is only open to 1/c Midshipman 21 or older and ONLY Midshipmen (you can't bring in outsiders or guests). I believe they only serve beer and it costs more than the average bar would charge. It's social drinking - something that is done not only in the public world, but largely in the military too. I know that the superintendent makes visits and just socializes with the mids. It's hardly a rowdy time. Nobody's falling flat on their faces or being rushed to the hospital. </p>
<p>You claim it leads to bad behavior and social problems, citing the other Academies as examples of "dry student bodies" (according to the PR, which I do not believe at all). Yet, KP is the ONLY academy that has NOT recently had incidents of rape, assault, harassment etc (which all four of the other academies have been tainted over for in the news lately). </p>
<p>I would not at all consider myself a heavy drinker - it's something I just don't do, and I attribute this to the fact that I was raised to enjoy, but respect alcohol. I tasted my first beer when I was probably just 8 or 9 (given to me by my parents at dinner). My parents taught me responsibility and I've learned how to enjoy alcohol in moderation.</p>
<p>We're being trusted with millions of dollars worth of equipment and cargo, can be sent overseas to war zones, yet there's a problem with allowing a little social drinking with our class mates with whom we've been together with for the best and worst of times for the past few years? </p>
<p>Also, look at it this way - if every person out of here became an alcoholic, we'd all be having trouble keeping a job. I challenge anyone that says that there is a more watched-upon and regulated industry out there than commercial shipping when it comes to drinking.</p>
<p>Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with you on this.</p>
<p>Now Now Now</p>
<p>There is no division with this Regiment</p>
<p>As the person who started this lousy thread,
(Im sorry) who exposed this soft underbelly of a situation,
and who has some true affection for for Kp and
all those Moms/Dads and Kpers who are part of a
kind of family here in this pursuit of education and excellence,
allow my to say this.</p>
<p>I truly believe that the school, the systems in place and the
administrators of this operation have done and are doing a TOP NOTCH
job in supplying the US Merchant Marine, our Armed Services and other industries with the absolute highest quality graduates possible
and will continue to do so in the future.</p>
<p>I truly believe that the decision to sanction the 1/c pub was made
after plenty of thought and based on a set of guidelines that make sense
and guard against abuse.</p>
<p>I truly believe that the pub is run in a sane way and ultimately
overseen by the administration who understand where the ultimate buck stops and where the crap will hit if there are any major problems.</p>
<p>I truly believe, that upon reaching 1/c, having already served a stint
of sea time in some far flung part of the world. having already achieved their 21st birthday, and already received 21 years of encouragement and guidance from us, our KPers are ready to have the opportunity to have a drink or two within the safe confines of their own campus</p>
<p>I think we raised them right, USMMA has a mission and course that is molding them into experts in their fields and at this point these Midshipmen are as prepared to take a drink as any citizen.</p>
<p>Done right, the pub is fine. Done wrong, its a detriment</p>
<p>These kids ARE a cut above the rest
I trust them to prove it</p>
<p>Go KP SAILING
BEAT NAVY !!!</p>
<p>Alcohol is a social lubricant we all just have to remember to not to over lubricate.</p>
<p>To give you all a little real world perspective, the following is from my deck officer conference notes: </p>
<p>.04 Blood Alcohol Content (B.A.C.) Rule</p>
<p> The BAC limit is strictly enforce here.
No alcohol is to be consumed within 4 hrs of scheduled duty
Do Not allow anyone to turn to who is suspect
Pass the word to your watch ABs. There will be no letters of warning and no second chances.
If you allow intoxication to any degree, both you and intoxicant will go Guaranteed!
I will Breathalyzer test any suspected abusers!</p>
<p>I have no problem if a cadet wants to sit in his room and have a beer after a long day working for the First Engineer or the Mate. Many do just that. Further, I dont make a distinction between cadets over or under 21, and the same can be said for barkeeps in ports outside the United States. </p>
<p>Anyway, everyone is made aware of the alcohol rules and the penalties for violating them when they sign aboard (at least on my ship they are). So you either learn to drink responsibility or DONT DRINK. Because it might be kinda tough standing in front of the PTB back at KP trying to explain the reason you turned to gassed up, and the Old Man subsequently put you in the official logbook, discharged you for cause and flew your a$$ home. </p>
<p>Go KP, beat somebody!!!</p>
<p>not even gonna bother...</p>