<p>Maybe there is a disconnect in the way that you are asking your question. barrinng academic dismissals, suspensions, or constant major changes, unless money is an issue (the number 1 reason that students do no graduate in 4 years) it is very hard not to graduate from the ivies, elite LACs, and that ilk within 4 years. Even in the event of an academic dismissal, suspension, ect, these schools will take you back and you can still graduate.</p>
<p>Probably the hardest schools to graduate within 4 years from are public universitites where there are a large number of students who may have a hard time getting in to the classes that they need to graduate (hence the reason for a 6 year graduation rate).</p>
<p>Dicey, I have no idea how to assess the difficulty of graduation without at least looking at graduation rates in some way. Perhaps I'm not quite understanding your question in the first place. You seem to be asking about rigor--and the schools with the comparatively "lower" graduation rates are, surprise surprise, known for their rigor--constant studying, workloads, etc.</p>
<p>Which Schools Are So Difficult That The Material Is Challenging For Geniuses To Grasp, The Workload Induces Suicidal Thoughts, And Professors Are Known To Purposely Never Give An A?!</p>
<p>Look up PR's list of "Students never stop studying." I'd provide the link, but PR has randomly stopped working lately.
EDIT: Here's a list where I think they took the top ten from PR: Ten</a> Schools Where the Students Never Stop Studying - MSN Encarta I'm surprised Swarthmore isn't on it...</p>
<p>Come on Kyle, I know it was an honest mistake, but now you're just being deliberately unhelpful. </p>
<p>Giggitus, exactly. The only reason I didn't say "most rigorous" is because people always say "the Ivies," not realizing that HYPS is guilty of grade inflation and teaches less intellectually advanced material than others. Good advice--I've checked that link and was hoping there would be more input here since PR doesn't necessarily take grade inflation into account, not to mention the self-selecting element of some people being more inclined to constant studying than others, regardless of the actual course load and how advanced the material is.</p>
<p>Caltech
Georgia Tech
MIT
Berkeley
U Chicago
Swarthmore
Reed
Cornell
Middlebury
Johns Hopkins
(UC San Diego? Maybe?)
Occidental
Purdue</p>
<p>Any of those schools stand out more than the others? Horror stories? Any more schools?</p>
<p>
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Which Schools Are So Difficult That The Material Is Challenging For Geniuses To Grasp, The Workload Induces Suicidal Thoughts, And Professors Are Known To Purposely Never Give An A?!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Gotta go out, but I'll get back to you with an answer to that question later. There's an important distinction between rigorous/demanding/engaged and simply grading difficulty for the sake of difficulty.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Which Schools Are So Difficult That The Material Is Challenging For Geniuses To Grasp, The Workload Induces Suicidal Thoughts, And Professors Are Known To Purposely Never Give An A?!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The way you are posing the question doesn't really match the reality of college. The reality is that there are students at every college in the country, who take on workloads that would bring an ox to its knees. Double major in Engineering and anything else.</p>
<p>What you are really asking, I think, is the dynamics of the academic experience. On average, are the students at College X fully engaged academically and studying diligently to show up at class prepared? On average, do the professors feed off the energy of engaged, well-prepared students? </p>
<p>Those are legitimate questions, guestions that might lead you to a very demanding, but rewarding academic experience. But, you keep asking the question in terms of harsh grades and struggling to graduate. In reality, the only people who fail to graduate from elite colleges are slackers, kids who go off the deep end in some way (usually involving drinking or drugs), and the very occasional student from a poor high school background who simply lacks the preparation for a demanding school. These days, there are mentoring and other support programs to help that last category.</p>
<p>
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If Cal's on the list, so is UCLA. The only program at Berkeley that's substantively more difficult than any of UCLA's would be engineering.
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Some anecdote, my sister has a friend who transferred from UCLA to Berkeley after 2 years. She had 3.9+ from UCLA, and couldn't break 3.3 at Berkeley for her final two years. She said the competition is just at another level. People aren't as laid back. They fight for every single extra credit point, be it projects, tests, homework. I don't think the competitiveness at UCLA is at the same level.</p>
<p>As far as UCSD goes (and this is probably true for a lot of schools on the list) it really depends on your major. Certain majors (mostly in the sciences) are incredibly difficult and there are quite a few "weeder" classes where professors have harsh curves. I have also heard that Berkeley is pretty tough overall and that UCLA varies. I would argue that the list should contain more publics due to the grade deflation that is all too common (esp. when compared to certain top privates - I'm looking at you Harvard)</p>
<p>It's also rather funny that UCLA supporters will call Berkeley "competitive and cutthroat" and UCLA "laid-back," yet when Berkeley is called "rigorous," they're quick to make sure that UCLA is considered just as difficult. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>(This isn't directed at you, calicartel--I've seen this many times on CC.)</p>