My D2 is currently a junior and decided a couple of years ago to pursue acting. She has been a dancer all her life and competitively since the age of 6 so she’s used to being on stage. She also can sing. She took private acting lessons via Skype for a couple of years until about two years ago when she thought it best to stop that and to get herself into a class with other actors. She attended AcTeen in NYC in 2014 for their June intensive and did very well. She was asked to audition for their Fall Showcase. From that audition the director would pick her top 12 to perform at the showcase for several NYC agents. My D was chosen and also received a scholarship. From that she signed with a theatrical agent and has been going on auditions but hasn’t booked anything yet. She was also referred to another agency for voiceover and commercials so as of April 19th she will be signed with two agencies. Her only theater experience has been her high school’s production of Green Day’s American Idiot which was last weekend. She hasn’t done any summer college programs but we are waiting to hear if she got into Wagner’s MT Intensive. However, she is not interested in majoring in Musical Theater, she wants straight acting or film acting. Right now she has a one track mind about going to college in California (we live in NJ). We visited USC, Chapman, UC Irvine, CalArts and The Relativity School when we were in CA on vacation in August. She really has her heart set on USC but I know it’s going to be tough to get into. Her SAT is only 1760 but she’s taking it again. I’m not even sure what her GPA is since her school doesn’t calculate it on the Parent Portal but it’s somewhere around 3.8 weighted with two AP classes. I also learned about Loyola Marymount from reading some posts on here…to bad I didn’t know about it when we were in CA.
I’ve been through this before to an extent. My D1 is currently a Junior at Pace majoring in Commercial Dance but I’m finding the theater thing very different. First of all…there are so many more schools to choose from compared to the dance major! Right now I have 40 on the list. My D is very reluctant to consider schools outside of LA or NY but I’m trying my best to open her eyes to other experiences. She is a varsity cheerleader so I know she would like a school that has football. I’m stressing that she needs to apply to a lot of schools because the BFA programs are so hard to get into but she takes that as me not being encouraging and being negative. When we sat with the theater dept at USC they told us that you could not apply to both the BA and BFA programs. However I think I read somewhere on here that someone’s D or S was accepted to the BA although the BFA was their first choice, so I’m confused by that. I think my D might have a better shot at the USC BFA because they put more emphasis on the audition as opposed to the BA which looks more at grades. They also told us that she would be able to audition outside of school in the BA program but not the BFA program and since she has representation that seems to me the better deal for her. I’m so thankful I found College Confidential! I’m learning so much here and any information or opinions anyone has would be very greatly appreciated! Oh and I read someone’s post today about wishing they had used a coach. It was something I was not considering at all since I used one for my older D and found it a complete waste but my eyes have been opened to the importance of it for acting BFA programs and I’m going to look into it.
@marg928 I have a junior in hs, and she’s looking at double majoring at Pace (business and commercial dance). Your post caught my eye as you said you have a daughter as a junior in commercial dance at Pace. We have visited Pace, and she was there last Oct. for the fall workshop, saw the show and we were both very impressed with the faculty and the variety of styles that is offered by Pace. She has been dancing since 4, has been competing for several years and attends conventions on a regular basis. We looked at several colleges with dance programs like you: USC, Chapman, UofA, OCU, Loyola Marymount (LA), UT, TCU. Her first choice right now is Pace if she could get in the commercial dance, her 2nd choice is TCU because of the business program, campus atmosphere.
My daughter & I both know that dance is just a very hard way to make a living and very competitive. Everyone tells us that it’s super hard to double major because a BFA requires so much work and rehearsals that it’s difficult to double major.
Since your daughter is a junior now, what does the job prospects look for her? Does Pace help students land jobs? I know they boast about their connection with professionals in the industry.
I’m sure we saw your daughter perform last fall in the fall workshop…just don’t know which one she was! But the show was spectacular! My daughter won a scholarship to come back for the fall workshop, so we’re planning to come in Oct and she will audition then.
She just recently got accepted into Pace scholar summer institute for a 2 week program with the business administration program and will be there in July. It’s another way for her to try out Pace.
Whatever advice/comments you can give me is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
@SLparent My daughter was definitely at a that fall workshop…her name is Katrina…very long brown hair. Anyway, I would say it’s pretty much impossible to double major in the BFA Commercial Dance program. Katrina is minoring in Arts Management and so far that hasn’t been easy to schedule. I’m pretty sure Rhonda told us outright that you couldn’t double major. As far as job prospects I really haven’t heard anything very impressive yet but she is still a junior. Their very first student in the program toured last year in Marvel Universe Live but have no idea if Pace helped her land that role. They say you can audition after Freshman year but not many seem to do that. I know there was a boy who was in Newsies and also stayed in school. One of my daughter’s friends is joining the cast of Hamilton after this semester is over (he’s a Junior) but he didn’t get that job through Pace. They actually courted him last year but he said no. She has been in a few music videos but also those jobs were not thanks to Pace…she got them through a casting website on her own. As a side note, I went to Pace myself…BBA in International Mgt Class of '86. I never thought my daughter would go to my alma mater! I have to be honest though…I’m not really happy with the experience so far. I can count on one hand the shows she has been cast in. She is only in one dance in the upcoming show and she didn’t get a part at all in the December show. Last year wasn’t much better. It’s been pretty upsetting for me. She is happy there though and has made great friends so I know I shouldn’t let it bother me so much. On the other hand when you’re spending that kind of money and your kid is not getting the experience you sent them there for…you get pretty pissed off to say the least. Let me know if your daughter has specific questions, I’m sure my daughter would answer them for her.
USC looks at grades for both programs, but the BFA is definitely based more on the audition. USC has pretty high SAT/GPA averages so you may want to check on those. The BA gives more flexibility for taking classes and work outside of class. The BFA is a very intense, conservatory type program. LMU is definitely a good school to check out.
For the original poste, I don’t have any experience with California schools (my D was interested in NY/Boston), but I have a LOT of experience with the college search as a parent, having done college recruiting for a company, and having served on an admissions committee when I was in graduate school. My synopsis:
- If your D is focused on California, then that is actually helpful because it prunes down the list of hundreds of potential schools to a list of dizens
- It is wise to try NOT get too emotionally invested in a particular school before acceptance. Yes, priorities are good. But the audition process is such a crapshoot that there is no guarantee that even the most talented kid with the highest GPA will get in where thy want to
- Decide NOW whether it is better to apply to non-audition safety schools, or whether your daughter would take a gap year and re-apply rather than "settle" for a safety school. My personally opinion is that there are plenty of top notch BA programs (non-audition) that provide great training, a great education, and a wonderful 4 years for a bachelors. But I also know friends whose kids have taken the gap year route and been very happy with it
That’s not ironclad advice, to be sure. But the main point is that this is a proce\ss, and like most of life you can’t define in advance what you or your daughter will get out of it. The whole audition and college visit process can be very enjoyable if you make it so, but you can’t pre-ordain the results.
Thank you @astute12 and @Delegator . I spoke with my D about BA safeties and non-audition schools and she is convinced that there will be no talent at a non-audition school. How can I convince her otherwise…or is she right about that? Today she texted me from school and asked what jobs you can get with a History degree so I hope she’s not too discouraged LOL!
Well, there may be no school without a non-audition school. This process is so much more competitive than you would ever think. Everyone warned us this year and we heard it, but we didn’t really hear it, thinking: “oh, but she’s so talented.” Doesn’t matter. Honestly - it doesn’t. It’s random and subjective and I know many, MANY, kids who are going to their so-called “safeties” this year. There are no safeties. They don’t exist. And, let me tell you, those so called safeties are filled with talented kids because they didn’t get into the lottery schools. I was so snobby when I started this process and now I’m all about “yay! You got in somewhere!”
@marg928 Thanks for your response. Can you answer some more questions:
- How does Pace cast dancers for their shows? Do they cast any freshman? Do they cast higher level students or is it strictly by talent and whether you fit the look?
- What is your daughter’s plan after graduation?
- How would you rate Pace as a school? Is it academically strong? How is their honors school?
I agree with you that for what it costs, I would be disappointed if I sent my kid there to dance and she doesn’t get to perform much. What worries me is colleges cost so much, and if she can’t find a job after graduation, then what? The entertainment industry doesn’t seem to have a job fair infrastructure for graduates like other fields like business, finance, engineering, etc… and that makes it so difficult to land your first job.
@SLparent they hold auditions for their Fall and Spring Show. The fall show is DancePace and the spring show is Dance Out Loud. The fall show auditions basically take place the first week that the semester starts in September. They bring in outside choreographers for the most part who hold their own audition and choose the dancers they want. Also the teachers, Rhonda, Lauren and Jess will usually have their own dances in the show that they hold auditions for. So, there may be one kid who is cast in four different numbers and another one may get nothing. There are no checks and balances to try to make it more fair. That’s my beef. It also annoyed me that at last year’s show they put in a dance that was a trio which I found completely ridiculous…especially when there were so many kids without parts at all. My daughter had one part in that show last year and it was the exact same piece that she was cast in the fall prior! Why not have a number with a lot of dancers in it instead to give more students performance opportunities? It makes no sense to me. My D has gotten some “B Cast” parts in the past which were originally not going to perform but then they added an afternoon show and she was able to perform but that only happened once. Another time she was an understudy and the girl she was shadowing could not perform so my D thought she would get the opportunity since she had been practicing for months and knew the choreography. Well…they ended up giving the part to the girl who was in the B Cast of that same dance instead so she ended up dancing the part in all the shows! Some nonsense about the costume which was complete BS. Thank God for Emergence, which is the student choreography show in December. She was in three dances for that show so at least we got to see her dance this year. That one is held at the studio though and is cast by the Seniors who are in the choreography track. It’s so sad when you’re used to seeing your kid dance at competition and recital and then they’re in college and you have no idea how they’re doing and get hardly any opportunities to see them perform. And yes, they do cast Freshmen. As the program grows, each year the Freshmen are better and better and are taking parts away from the upperclassmen.
As far as my daughter’s plans after college, I think she will get an agent and go on auditions. I know she would love to do a concert tour but as you know, she will have to take what she can get. Back in the 80’s when I was a student there it was mostly a commuter school popular with students from the 5 boroughs of NYC. It had a very strong reputation for business, finance, accounting, etc. The school is still exactly the same as when I went there but the demographic is so very different. There were no performing arts at all when I went there. I do think it’s a good school and they always had great connections for internships. There was an article that came out a few months ago that placed Pace #1 on the list of most underrated schools. As far as the Honors School I really don’t have any insight on that. Hope this helps.
@marg928 Would you classify your daughter more like a concert dancer or a commercial style dancer? What was her dance training background? My daughter trains in various styles, not just ballet or modern/contemp. and this is why Pace is her top choice. She doesn’t want to be a concert dancer and therefore doesn’t attend a high school for the performing arts. She goes to a college prep hs and trains at a studio that offers ballet, tap, jazz and attends conventions and competes on a regular basis. She has had Jess at conventions and summer intensives in Houston. She knows Kevin (idk his last name) at Pace who is a junior I believe through Tremaine Performance Program. We recently heard a friend of my daughter just got accepted into Pace CD program… I have not talked to the gal’s mom to see if she’s going there or not.
Good luck to your daughter and all her auditions! Please let me know which dance your daughter will be in for the Oct fall workshop. The show for the workshop is informal and held at the large studio but nevertheless, it gives prospects a good feel of what’s being taught there. Like I said, my daughter will be there in the fall to audition.
I also heard that Pace has a good reputation for finance, accounting too, especially because of the internships on Wall Street. Where was the article that Pace was #1?
Is your daughter going to LA for her senior year to study and make connections with choreographers as part of the curriculum? That’s what Rhonda told us at the workshop last Oct.
Thanks for all your input.
Regarding non-audition schools and talent, I think your daughter needs a reality check (I know, shocking that a teenager needs a reality check, right?). Look at a place like Barnard and their alumni and you will find a pretty impressive list.
The best advice I can give to any student is that nobody is too good for ANY school. Professionals come from a huge variety of backgrounds from no college at all up through MFA programs. If a kid gets too focused on the program reputation or whether it is a BFA vs a BA then they are limiting their own horizons.
But that isn’t something that all kids want to hear because they will have heard about which programs are “best”. One need only look at the varied careers of people from Sutton Foster to Anna Kendrick to see that there is no formula that equates to success.
I agree with you @Delegator. As a matter of fact I’m really hoping that she sees that a BA is probably a better choice for her in the long run. She loves to learn and is interested in history, anthropology and archaeology. I want her to see that with the BA she can pursue those other interests and come out of college as a well rounded individual ready to take the acting world by storm!
@SLparent let me start with LA…Rhonda began the school year in September telling the junior class that instead of going to LA for three weeks during winter break as they usually do, that they would be spending their entire fall semester in LA. My D was beyond thrilled! Unfortunately Rhonda should never have said anything to them because she didn’t have the logistics planned out yet and she couldn’t get it to work. I can’t remember all the details but it had to do with scheduling classes. (There was also the issue of the students who were renting apartments…they would either have to give up their apartment (but if they had a lease that wasn’t possible) or continue paying rent while they were in LA because they would still need it when they got back after the fall semester). When she couldn’t get that to work on time she changed it to the spring semester…but told them that they would have to miss their graduation! And she didn’t think this was a big deal! In the end the current juniors lost out on the opportunity and now it’s back to three weeks in the winter. She will probably get it all to work out in the next couple of years but not soon enough for my D unfortunately. As far as her training my daughter went to a pre-professional ballet school from age 4-13 and also went to a traditional competition studio (tap, jazz, ballet, lyrical, hiphop) starting at age 10 through senior year. For three years it overlapped and she went to both schools. So she was very well trained in her younger years (took the R.A.D. exam once) but ended up loving the other disciplines more and quit the ballet school. It was a very serious school and she wasn’t really cut out for that and she didn’t have the banana foot so she wasn’t one of their favorites. Her solos were always in lyrical or contemporary. She went to a Catholic HS that had a small dance program run by a woman who graduated from UArts so that was a nice addition to her education. When I said she would like a concert tour I meant as a back up dancer (commercial dance). Also FYI she told me that only one person at Pace attempted to double major along with the dance BFA and just dropped out of the dance program this year going into junior year.
@marg928 thanks so much for all that good information. My daughter sounds similar to yours in some aspects, like going to a Catholic hs, and trains at a local studio and competes at conventions. For years, my daughter too would like to be a backup dancer and do commercial work, etc… But lately, she seems to lean towards a more stable career than dance and is seriously thinking about double majoring in business and dance. But every school we visited, everyone said it’s really hard to do that. I so wish Pace would offer a minor in dance…I don’t even think you can take dance classes for non-majors. When the time comes and that is soon, it will be very difficult if she had to choose one over the other.
Please let me know what dance your daughter is in for the fall workshop so we can look out for her :).
@SLparent you are right that non majors cannot take dance classes. However, if she does end up at Pace she can always take open classes at Broadway Dance Center or Steps on weekends. And also know that Pace is very generous with scholarships. Expect to get at least $20K per year. At this point I’m sure Katrina has no idea if she will be involved in the fall auditions but maybe you will remember her name when the time comes and look out for her! And check out The Gaslight Anthem’s music videos for Get Hurt and Rollin and Tumblin as well as Timeflies “Worse Things Than Love”…my DD has great parts in all!
Many non-audition schools have AMAZING theatre programs and talent! My d applied and was accepted to Sarah Lawrence and Skidmore – both have great programs. Here is a link to Skidmore’s alumni page https://www.skidmore.edu/academics/theater/aboutUs/alumni/actors.html and Sarah Lawrence https://www.sarahlawrence.edu/about/notable-alumni/
Julianna Margulies and Tovah Feldshuh are two Sarah Lawrence alums…
Meryl Streep graduated from Vassar, Lupita Nyongo went to Hampshire…
Thank you @astute12. My husband’s coworker’s daughter studied dance at Skidmore but haven’t checked it out due to the location but I will. My D was accepted into Wagner’s Summer MT program so this should be a good way for her to see what a college program would be like.
@SLparent here is the article I mentioned: http://www.businessinsider.com/most-underrated-colleges-in-america-2015-10
@marg928 Thanks for the link. Can you send me the link to the video? And point out your daughter. I’d love to watch her 