MS MIT Media Lab admission difficulty?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
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<p>Has anyone had experience with admissions to the MIT Media Lab at the graduate school level .. for the MS program? I know it's tough and depends upon which research group you want to get into, but I want to get a sense of how much experience a qualified applicant should have? I'm particularly interested in the Sociable Media or Lifelong Kindergarten groups. I graduated from college in December but have roughly 8 months of experience working for a web 2.0 start-up social networking site, and intend on working in this position at least until the end of the year, but do you think that is sufficient enough experience? I realize it is not so much a matter of length of experience as the achievement you make through this experience, but I'd be 22 at Spring '09 so if the average age of accepted grad students is much higher, I do think I would be at a significant disadvantage. Should I forego the Fall '09 application cycle and plan on working another year or two first? Thanks a bunch guys :D</p>

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<p>Your age shouldn't be an issue in the least. Our son applied to the Media Lab M.S./Ph.D. program at age 14, despite my and my husband's thinking he was going against all odds and as such refusing to even pay the application fee (awful that this was, and I did give him a check to reimburse him when he proved me wrong and was admitted). He was also one of only two students who was invited to start in June rather than fall (and if they cared so much about the age, they certainly wouldn't have invited him to start earlier than the others, but perhaps done something like asked him to defer a year). He is on track (far as we can tell; he submitted his final project for an optional course today and we hope the optional course doesn't mess him up) to graduate with his M.S. on June 6, so if they admitted a 14-year-old (and indeed even allowed him to live in single person graduate housing at age 14 rather than forcing parents to move in with him into graduate family housing), I am quite confident 22 won't be an issue in the least. I get the feeling that the average age of students in the program is over 22 (two friends of our son's who work at the Media Lab are in their 30's, and the youngest I know about was a 23-year-old in his first year who had no idea our son was younger than he was when he had our son as a TA in a grad class last fall, and I am not even sure if he is a Media Lab program student or just was taking an MAS grad class as people in other depts. do take MAS classes; there could be younger students there, but I am pretty sure the average is over 22 being that I can't recall even hearing of any students who were 22 or younger since our son started in the program, other than our son of course).</p>

<p>Who runs the Sociable Media group (I'm too lazy to look this up)? I believe Mitch Resnick still runs the Lifelong Kindergarten group and he is a very nice person who again can't have anything against young students as he knew our son's age and was the head of the Media Arts and Sciences program when our son was admitted. He took the time to attend a meeting with our son and the housing dept. people, dean of graduate students (a title that has recently been changed), and some others and showed true caring (as did they all) in our son's welfare and happiness. Our son told me that Dr. Resnick noted to him that his having worked as an independent consultant for a year (though at the time he put in his application, it was just a few months) before coming to the Media Lab was a plus on his side, so they seem to appreciate people who have some work experience between college and graduate school (our son also had done internships started at age 9 with tech companies while in college, but I don't think that was ever mentioned as a plus particularly, though it might have been). Some of the people from that lab have absolutely incredible resumes, though (I recall one who was a higher up in Blue Mountain Cards when it was a start-up and the guy was still in college; the company was sold for millions while he still worked for the company, I believe, and I am guessing he came to the Media Lab more for his own self-edification than to improve job opportunities, much as is the case for our son who was making $200+/hour on some of his projects before becoming an RA and having to give up other paid work).</p>

<p>More than your experience or age, the one thing that you might have going against you is if you didn't get your undergraduate degree at MIT. When I was looking into resumes from Media Lab people back when our son had applied, I could find bachelor's degree information on 21 Media Lab people and 14 of them had a bachelor's degree from MIT (2 out of 3 is much higher than the average for MIT labs; I think the average was around 25% of MIT graduate students having undergraduate degrees from MIT last I read the statistic), and four of the remaining 7 had their bachelor's degrees from top universities in other countries (three European and one Canadian), leaving only three who got their bachelor's degree from an American school that wasn't MIT. And at least one of those was from a local university and I think had managed to somehow work at the Media Lab while in undergraduate school at the other college (our son had also spent time at the Media Lab starting at age 8, so was known by people, and I am sure this made a large difference as he wasn't just words and numbers on an application but someone whom they had seen give presentations and corresponded with for years; he had even served on a technical advisory board for his current lab while the other members of the board were quantum computing expert Peter Shor and California Institute of Technology, Harvard, and Berkeley professors, one of whom was also an Olympic athlete years ago if I recall correctly...it was pretty surreal).</p>

<p>If you really want to go to school at the Media Lab (and the Media Lab <em>only</em> accepts graduate students into their program so you don't really need to add "at the graduate level" after "admissions to the MIT Media Lab"; though plenty of undergraduates work at the lab as UROPs, you can't get an undergraduate degree from the Media Arts and Sciences department), APPLY. It's really not much money to apply, right? I'd say anyone who truly dreams of working there should. And you can just take the attitude our son had when he applied - "It's okay if I don't get in the first time I apply. I'll just ask what they are looking for that I don't have, get that, and keep applying till I get in." Meanwhile, I'll urge you to write Dr. Resnick and whoever heads the Sociable Media group and ask <em>them</em> for information - life is too short to be shy, and going directly to who you want to work with/for makes a ton of sense when it comes to <em>any</em> research job.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>^.......huh? is this real? 14? what? what's going on?</p>

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<p>That's one of the downsides of someone doing something a bit before the norm; people who don't know you doubt the reality, especially if the person hasn't gone on Oprah or something.</p>

<p>Not sure how to answer, "What's going on", though.</p>

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<p>HUH?. college at age 8? did he skip grades 1 through 10 or something?</p>

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<p>actually there is a 15 year old or something that started doing PhD program at my school...so I guess it is not unprecedented.</p>

<p>Hope these geniuses don't become social cripples...</p>

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<p>While there have been people to go to college at age 8 (the world record holder started college at 6 and had an associates degree at 8 and a bachelor's at 10, last I heard), our son was <em>admitted</em> to college at 8 and <em>could have started</em> (i.e. was urged by admissions to start at 8) but we parents had him hold off till he turned 9. He worked at the Media Lab at age 8 in a very informal sense, not as a student at MIT at that age. Sorry there was confusion there.</p>

<p>He was self-educated for the most part prior to starting college at age 9. He started reading at 18 months (with no phonics programs or the like, so this came as quite the surprise to us), was doing triple digit math problems involving negative numbers aloud in his stroller at the mall for his personal amusement at age 2 (this was when we came to realize his pediatrician's urging us to homeschool when our son had his 18 month check-up wasn't bad advice), and just learned very easily by observing the world around him and making connections. This isn't to say he never learned with other people before college - he took a Spanish course at the elementary schools after school program when he was I think 5, did Mad Science at 5, was in a handchime/handbell choir with the other members being 10+ when he was 6, attended Physics is Phun sessions at the local state U when he was I think 5 to 8 took Italian at the local CC (not for credit, but in their Kids on Campus program geared for high school students) at age 7, was in a book discussion group with the other members all being adults with advanced degrees when he was 8, took other Kids on Campus classes (CAD programming, business, stock market, etc.) at age 7 or 8, took a German class for ages 18+ through the county parks and rec program before he started taking German as a college student, and so on. If he would be seen as skipping anything, it would be high school, as he went from algebra I through Johns Hopkins distance learning to calc I in college (never took algebra II or high school geometry or pre-calc and this didn't seem to matter as it turned out; he tested into calculus on the college placement exam despite his lack of formal study and was one of the top students in the class at age 9, did fine in honors math courses, and had no problem getting A's in upper level geometry and algebra/number theory courses even when he took a combination 5 upper level and graduate math courses plus an upper level CS course in the same semester). </p>

<p>He also took a pre-med bio course (at the college which had more freshman in Harvard Medical School than any other college than Harvard itself that fall) at age 9 without the pre-requisites of one year of high school chem and one year of high school bio (the professor was told his SAT scores by the admissions department and told me, "Any kid with that high a verbal score at age 8 clearly learns new vocabulary easily and my course is heavy in learning new vocabulary, so I think he'll do fine" and insisted we shouldn't worry about his lacking the pre-reqs) and despite his only bubble-test experience prior being the SAT, he was ranked 3rd in his section where over 300 had registered (and nobody in the other section of 200+ students that fall scored higher than he did) and he'd have had a higher score still had he been in the honors discussion section (same exams, but discussion counted more heavily for that section that the regular sections and he had a perfect discussion quiz/participation grade). </p>

<p>He also went directly into the honors sophomore level CS course as his first CS course (this was first recommended by a student in a freshman CS course who felt our son was at a higher level than he was, and our son went to speak with a CS professor to get some idea of which course would be a better match - the freshman or sophomore course - and was told not only to register for the sophomore level course but to register for the honors section). So he did some "skipping" in a way, but not grades 1 through 10 (he actually has a transcript from a private school for grades 1 through 4 as we bought the advisory teaching service for those years so he would be able to have a paper trail, though in time we concluded that was a waste as anyone who talked with him wanted to work with him and he didn't need paper proof of what he could do, not that the SAT at age 8 hurt, mind you). Oh, and he took an upper level chem class at age 9 as his first chem course (again, the professor met him and made this offer to him) and did well (the professor noted that it was incredible how good his research paper was, especially given that he'd never had a chemistry course prior, and accepted our son's rough draft as a final copy, just like his honors CS teacher did).</p>

<p>As for gqunit, what school do you attend, if you don't mind sharing? Do you know the person and does he/she seem like a social cripple? From the limited amount of information I have been able to find on early to college people (which I wouldn't label "genuises" as I don't use the IQ score definition when I use that word but the "advancing a field in a significant way" definition where creativity is a large part of the picture), those who weren't able to make many friends as children don't feel themselves to be great socially as adults, and those who made friends easily as children continue to be able to do throughout life, so my take on it is that this is a personality thing (and/or Asperger's thing) far more than an educational path thing. Our son has been complimented more for his social skills than his intelligence as he has always been able to do things like entertain little kids simultaneously with chatting about things like quantum physics with scientists and this impresses people time and again. His "problems" have been along the lines of having his Grad Gala fall on the same night as his teen formal dance last year (as he goes to social events with those his own age, undergrads, grad students, and adults like faculty and business people) and having to decide whether to invite the 19-year-old freshman MIT student he took to the Grad Gala to the teen formal (where everyone but the two of them would be high school students) as he felt she might find it odd to be out with him to a graduate dinner dance one week and a high school formal two weeks later, or how to juggle a teen slumber party with participating in a conference in Italy using 3D video equipment in MA when one doesn't own a car and the train schedule would not work real well so early in the AM from the town the slumber party was held (turned out a CEO hired a limo to pick him up from the slumber party at 9 AM). Rather than feeling like some early to college kids might about not fitting in anywhere, he has always seemed comfortable ("at home") everywhere and been invited to social things at all levels. He was also elected to student government in college, no matter his age, and is on the executive committee at his dorm and has been nominated and elected to a bunch of things (again, despite his age but not necessarily in spite of it as most at MIT don't even know he is young and a student he had in a graduate course he TAed last fall was shocked to learn our son wasn't older than he was, and he was nearly 24).</p>

<p>And gqunit is certainly right that being in a doctoral program at 15 or 14 isn't unprecedented, though I can't say I know of but one case where I am <em>certain</em> the student was in a <em>doctoral</em> program at age 14 or 15 unless you count combined MS/Ph.D. programs. Corey Cerovsek had his bachelor's degree wrapped up at 15 (music and math) and master's in both at 16 and left the Ph.D. program at 19 as he already had a successful solo violinist career and didn't see a need for the doctorate at that point, so I am guessing he might have been an M.S./Ph.D. student at 15 (and at Indiana University, which has one of the top music programs in America). Our son will "only" have one master's at 16, so is behind this guy even though he got his two bachelor's degrees at 13 (and as Stuart Smalley would say, "That's okay!" Indeed, I think our son's taking a year between college and grad school to have his own business was wise rather than to have setting some sort of record as a goal). Michael Grost had his master's in math at age 15, but might not have officially been a <em>doctoral</em> student till he went to Yale at 17 (and he switched at 20 to another school before getting his doctorate). Avatar Tulsi got his master's at age 12, but had some issues politically or something and wasn't able to start the Ph.D. until just before he turned 15, I think, but still started a doctoral program officially at 14 I believe (he is still working on the doctorate at age 20 from what little I can gather online). If anyone here knows of other people who started doctoral programs at 14 or 15, though, I'd love to know about them and add to what little information I have to go on for what happens with these early students years down the road. We made our decision to allow our son to start early with rather little information and just keep our fingers crossed that he (being smarter than either parent) has made good choices for himself and that we've not wronged him by allowing his to pursue his dreams.</p>

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<p>Just thought of someone I forgot a minute ago (someone our son has worked with a bit, at that): Erik Dumaine. He earned his bachelor's at 14, master's in math at 15, and Ph.D. at 20, and I am thinking was in a Ph.D. program starting at 15.</p>

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<p>Adragon De Mello graduated with an undergraduate degree in mathematics from U.C. Santa Cruz at age 11; at the time, he was the youngest to do so. 60 Minutes intereviewed him at the time and again years later, and it's not clear that having accelerated so quicky was such a great idea: What</a> Price Genius?, Father Pushes 10-Year-Old College Student - CBS News</p>

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<p>The key to Adragon's story is that he was pushed by his father rather than being the one who wanted the early college path. Indeed, he didn't go to graduate school at 14 or 15 or at all to date as far as I have heard and once his mother got custody of him (soon after he earned his math degree at age 11), he went back to <em>high school</em> (didn't he?) as he felt that was where he belonged.</p>

<p>Many parents feel if their child seems academically ready for college level work young, they should push (or at lease nudge) their child into college early, and I can sort of see their point - if a parent feels their child has on flood waters, getting the kid new pants rather than waiting for the kid to ask or beg for them is sensible. However, early college is still a "radical" thing and as such, I think it has special risks if the child isn't the one asking for it rather than just a parent feeling it is what should be done.</p>

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<p>LazyBum, I appreciate your sharing of this amazing story. </p>

<p>Now, looking at myself and perhaps other 20 something years old college students who are okay at media and science.... im worried by your post. I would really really really want to go to the Media Lab but I am pretty mediocre. I go to an ok-good school, I am double-majoring in engineering and fine arts, I have experienced a lot here and there but no major award/recognition, my friends consider me crazy who would fit right into the Media Lab, I will probably get a few okay recommendations. Now.... should I just give up my application (Im graduating next May and was planning on applying for Fall 2009). Seriously it seems like there's no chance. It is really discouraging :/</p>

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<p>^^Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Relatively few people double major in art and engineering, so that alone makes you an interesting candidate. Good luck!</p>

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<p>This looks like the Numb3rs guy! Wow! Are people, like me, who do stuff normally pretty unintelligent? I guess it's the country and social scene that matters. Down here, you can't skip a class no matter how brilliant you are. I, along with 2,3 people I have worked with, could have easily skipped 3-4 classes in between, but we couldn't and had to go to school as everyone else does. Doesn't make us dumb or stupid, right? Just a random post really, I was thinking that being "of age", I was rather unintelligent!</p>

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<p>"Now, looking at myself and perhaps other 20 something years old college students who are okay at media and science.... im worried by your post."</p>

<p>Goodness, I didn't expect to <em>worry</em> anyone by the post. I had thought that knowing the Media Lab admitted at 14-year-old would be encouraging, not discouraging.</p>

<p>"I would really really really want to go to the Media Lab but I am pretty mediocre. I go to an ok-good school, I am double-majoring in engineering and fine arts,"</p>

<p>Mediocre is a subjective term, and simply double-majoring in engineering and fine arts isn't a "mediocre" thing to do, so my guess is you are underestimating yourself.</p>

<p>"I have experienced a lot here and there but no major award/recognition, my friends consider me crazy"</p>

<p>My son's own parents thought him in lalaland in a way to bother to apply to MIT's graduate program at his age and not yet being published, such that we refused to even pay the $70 application fee for him, but the kid had hopes that he'd get in, wanted badly to get in, and applied using his own money...and got in. So I wouldn't let anyone considering you "crazy" deter you. Know what you want, and if it's legal and ethical and seems sensible to <em>you</em>, go for it. The worst you have to lose is a few bucks and a bit of time and effort applying.</p>

<p>"I will probably get a few okay recommendations."</p>

<p>I'm hoping you are underestimating yourself there, as I have the feeling recommendations might count for quite a bit. Not sure if I shared this in this thread ages ago when I posted here last, but our son didn't follow the stated directions with his nominations (the directions said they should be from three professors or two professors and a current employer, I am thinking, and he opted for the president of his university - whom he knew pretty well from his first week being a student on campus but never had as a teacher nor employer, the director of his honors college - whom he had known for a few years and had for two honors courses but neither were in the areas of his dual degree, and a <em>former</em> boss rather than a current client) and I figured that would also disqualify him, but again, he somehow got in, and my guess is that it was due to his nominations perhaps being stellar and from respected names in business and/or academia. Our son suspected his transcript would speak for itself on how talented a student he was and felt these particular people could speak for other aspects of himself.</p>

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<p>There's only no chance if you don't apply. And if you don't get in for fall of 2009, you can always work and year and reapply. I know the lab appreciates work experience as our son was told such by the head of the lab when he went for the interview, so it was likely good that we urged him to do consulting for a year before applying to grad school (though there's no way to know if they also would have admitted him at age 13 and with less work experience; it's conceivable they might have, but we can never know).</p>

<p>Again, if you want to go there, you have to play to win, as they say, so apply. A lot of people waste a lot more money than the application fee on lottery tickets with lower odds of reaping much of a return.</p>

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<p>Obviously lots of people who do things "normally" are intelligent, and I sense you know this. :)</p>

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<p>Where is "down here"? Australia allows such skipping and that's what I think of when I think "down" (or perhaps more "down under").</p>

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<p>Even if you had the opportunity to go up in level more quickly and opted not to take it, it wouldn't make any of you dumb or stupid. Different paths are good for different people.</p>

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<p>I am hoping you weren't serious there. I am thinking you are smart enough to know better. ;)</p>

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<p>Well ... you know what I meant ... the Numb3rs guy graduated from Princeton! By Down here I referred to India, my country. I generally believe, that 18 years is too much time to finish school. Either the time has to go down, or the content of the syllabus has to be increased. A large majority of people at my age end up knowing virtually nothing outside the text-books, which is to say that their knowledge is rather shallow, as far as the intelligence of a 18-yr old human is concerned.
The earlier post was a 'how-i-feel-about-the-education-system' post. Fact is, seeing that me and a 16 yr old guy studying the same thing is rather not pretty feel-good, if you know what I mean.
Do you agree or disagree?</p>

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<p>It's interesting that India is opposed to acceleration as it seems that in America, it is the Indian students (as in those with parents from India and not Native American Indian) who are some of the most likely to accelerate in school (go to college early, for example). I had thought quite a few "child prodigies" lived in India, like:</p>

<p>Child</a> Prodigy From India Appears On Oprah Winfrey Show</p>

<p>"This 13-year-old child prodigy rose to fame at the tender age of 7 by performing an operation on an 8-year-old girl whose fingers were fused together after being burnt. He became India's youngest university student and is currently studying for a BSc in Chandigarh University, India."</p>

<p>Six</a> Child Prodigies Doing Ph.D at 15</p>

<p>"Divya Tej, an Indian child prodigy is born on 8th June, 1990. He completed 10th standard directly after 4th standard at the age of 8 years. He completed post graduation (Master of Sciences in Zoology) skipping Intermediate and graduation at the age of 11 years from Sri Venkateswara University, India. At present, he is doing his Ph.D. on Epigenetics at Center for DNA Fingerprinting and Diagnostics, Hyderabad, India as a Senior Research Fellow."</p>

<p>"Tathagat Avatar Tulsi, an Indian child prodigy is born on 9th September, 1987. He completed his high school at the age of 9 years, graduation (Bachelor of Sciences) at the age of 10 and post graduation (M.S. in Physics) at the age of 12 from Patna University, India. At present, he is doing his Ph.D. on quantum computing at Indian Institute of Sciences, Bangalore, India as a Senior Research Scientist."</p>

<p>Those are just the first three I happened to hit in a Google search, but I am pretty sure there are a whole bunch of others, so what makes you say your country doesn't allow people to accelerate? </p>

<p>I'm not sure what you are asking me to agree or disagree with...if it's that seeing you and a 16-year-old studying the same thing not making you feel good, only you can say how you feel about something and if you say it doesn't make you feel good, I have no reason to doubt you. If you are asking me if I feel it <em>should</em> make you feel not so good, I would disagree. Tons of people my age have done fantastic things while I've done nothing other than enjoy life, and that doesn't make me feel bad (though I suppose you and many others would believe it <em>should</em>). Not everyone wants to do X by age & or even X at all, and that's fine, and if some system prevents someone from doing X by age Y, I don't see why that should make someone feel not so good. I feel good about seeing people do things they want to do, no matter their age when they do them. Our son met a woman in her 70's or maybe she was even if her 80's (forgot now which) who was working on her master's at the time he was 9 and working on his bachelor's; she had no reason to feel bad meeting our son, trust me. Indeed, what she was doing was far more "Wow"ish in that it is usually harder to acquire new skills at an age that advanced than it is when your age is in single digits.</p>