<p>I was recently at an event that reopened some old questions of mine, and I'm hoping fellow cc'ers (with luck including some of our voice training experts) can shed some light.</p>
<p>I noticed at this event, part of which was not amplified, that kids who are well trained MT belters generally sang with less volume than their equally well-trained opera counterparts. I'd noticed the same thing years ago at high school vocal competitions, including YoungArts, but am hoping folks here can speak to this.</p>
<p>I think in past posts @voicecoach has explained that legit singing involves very different muscles than belting, and that MTs are trained to endure 8 performances a week for months on end, while opera singers will perform far less frequently, so maybe that's part of the difference. I also think I've heard that folks like Idina Menzel are not loud when not amplified.</p>
<p>Given that we probably all have biases depending on how our kids were trained, as well as their natural areas of strength, any thoughts on MT and amplification?</p>
<p>I cannot impart anything on this based on any knowledge and so hopefully voice experts can. So, I’ll just relate personal anecdotes that came to my mind when I read your post. </p>
<p>One is that at my daughter’s theater camp that she attended for 8 summers, none of their productions used amplification and the kids seemed to be able to project their voices and be heard just fine. </p>
<p>The other thing that came to my mind is that my kid truly has a loud voice when singing and always has had one. In fact, I recall one of her college application essays starting off with: “I have a loud voice. All my life I have been told this.” She literally does have a loud voice, but she got into how she does figuratively as well. I recall when she was little, my dad would kid around and call her “Ethel” for “Ethel Merman” as she has always had a loud belty voice. </p>
<p>I have often wondered, with the access to amplification (wireless mics etc) available at many schools, youth theaters etc…if kids really learn to project anymore. I did youth theater, and performed in my school’s 1000 seat auditorium with no amplification, because there wasn’t another option. </p>
<p>I may be wrong, but it seems like it’s more than just whether or not one is trained to project, since I’ve seen the exact same singers switch from singing legit to singing pop or belting, and it seems to me their volume changes. I’d say this is even true for my D. Presumably they bring the same muscles and training to the various styles of singing, yet it seems the legit singing is consistently louder.</p>
<p>I do know kids who have always had loud voices, though, even for speaking, so that’s clearly a thing as well.</p>
<p>… and to be clear, I don’t think that volume equals quality. Some very loud voices can be very unpleasant, while some soft voices can be very expressive and moving. I’m just curious if there are any inherent volume differences in different styles of singing.</p>
<p>We attended a master class during the National Classical Singer Competition this past May taught by the chairman of voice at the University of Michigan. The students in the class were a mix of classical and MT kids so he addressed both styles of singing. One of the things he mentioned, that I had never really thought much about before, was that MT kids need to know how to sing with and without amplification, whereas classical generally just needs to sing without amplification. He said the reason for this is because when an MTer goes to an audition, they will never have them sing with amplification, even though they are audioning for a part that will always be amplified. He said this just gives the MTers a bit more to have to know how to do because singing with amplification is different than just singing without it, and an MTer should be good at both.</p>
<p>@weski2 - great points, but do many auditions take place outside of smallish rooms these days? I always worry that D’s (very loud) belting could hurt someone in a small room. ;)</p>
<p>I did notice that the opera singers didn’t seem to know how to use the mic when they had one, and also that every one of their voices sounded a bit strained after singing through a 20 minute MT set. I’ve never been trained as a singer, so I have no idea what one does differently with and without a mic, or why legit singing sounds louder to me.</p>
<p>This is so interesting because older D15’s first voice teacher was an opera singer who thought anyone who needed a mic was a wimp. She is naturally loud anyway but especially in youth shows growing up there were times you could literally not hear the other kids until they were amplified and they often turned hers off so as not to bust out the sound system. She really had to learn that in MT you do not have to give 100-percent where volume is concerned. But as a child being in tune and loud was desirable. I can’t wait to hear from the experts on this one.</p>
<p>I’m also really hoping some vocal experts weigh in!</p>
<p>One thing that occurred to me watching this event (the first time in years I’d seen many MTs and opera singers together) was the progression from old-time broad stage acting to film, where everything needs to be toned WAY down. It seems that MT is somewhere down that continuum from opera. To me the MTs performances seemed more nuanced, possibly in part because they are able to use wider volume dynamics?</p>
<p>MT covers a wide variety of singing styles. For example, you need more classical, operatic voices in shows like Les Mis, Phantom and this year’s Gentleman’s Guide. You have traditional MT shows like Oklahoma, South Pacific, King and I, etc… That aren’t quite as operatic but still look for a more legit style. Then as you move into more contemporary works you get shows that look for a heavy mix or belt. And of course then there are the shows that really want a true pop/rock sound which is also different. Most well trained singers will be able to sing in all of these styles but will have some at which they are better or more suited to than others.
I do agree that you have to be careful about equating loudness with quality. Just because a singer can project loudly does not mean it sounds good. They need quality as well as volume. And they need to adjust their volume to the setting. so if you are in a small audition room, just keep that in mind. you want them to love your voice, not cover their ears!<br>
There are still lots of singers out there who sacrifice vocal health to get that big belt sound. . Because most shows are miked, while belters are often a fan favorite, belting is not always necessary or even desired. Again, keep the style and volume appropriate to what you are singing. This will vary!
Just like all things MT, it is important to know your type, and know what roles you are best suited for both in physical appearance and voice type. Definitely train in all areas to make yourself as marketable as possible, but make sure you do so with a teacher who can instruct you on the healthiest way to mix and belt to achieve the sound you are looking for. Opera singers can amplify and sing MT, and Pop/rockers can sing opera or more legit/classical styles with proper training. Neither is better than the other. Just make sure the style you are singing is appropriate to the song you are singing. </p>
<p>Volume definitely does not equal quality, but there are a lot of former Annie’s out there who have to learn this lesson. Hopefully, by college they have it figured out. Also, one singer’s belt is sometimes another singer’s mix. I remember watching a competition once when the sound system failed and the stagehand telling the girl her mic was off was louder than the sound she was producing which sounded lovely amplified but did make me wonder what was going to come out of her mouth in an audition room. Maybe it was a choice, though. I don’t know, of course.</p>
<p>I’m not convinced most well-trained singers can switch between all the various MT styles well enough to perform all of them at a high professional level. Summer stock is obviously a whole different story, and of course there are some exceptions, but I’ve heard very few VP BFAs or MFAs who belt, riff, sing legit and pop rock all at a Broadway level. Am I wrong? I agree that every MT, no matter how well trained, needs to know their type.</p>
<p>Agreed. You need to know what you do best and what you are most suited for in casting. But more than likely you will be asked to sing different styles somewhere along the way. Be sure you get good training in all so you are prepared. And so you can do each in a way that is healthy for your voice. Reality is although you may be on Broadway, you could also be doing cruise ships, regional theaters and summer stock where different styles of singing may be requested. It may not be your best or favorite style to sing but may be what’s needed to land the job.</p>
<p>Cruise ships, regional theaters and summer stock are plenty competitive and directors will have the opportunity to find excellent performers within any voice/ character type. They do not need to work with people who are not excellent. Young performers should learn their type, know what roles they can sing best and concentrate on that. I would not advise anyone to be a jack of all trades when it came to singing. I would, however, encourage singers to get out of their comfort zone when it comes to dance. Being adaptable (and good enough) as a dancer can open up more opportunities for work. </p>
<p>@uskoolfish - I don’t believe it was said or implied that cruise ships, regional theaters and summer stock aren’t competitive or that their performers aren’t talented or excellent? i think they provide wonderful opportunities for many artists. They do sometimes require performers to be in multiple shows which can be of varying styles. For example, the Lyric in OKC hired some people this summer to be in both Les Mis and Little Mermaid. two very different styles. We have friends performing in a season that includes Oklahoma and Spamalot. And yet another friend who is in Millie, Tarzan and West Side Story. Being able to adapt vocal styles as a performer is necessary for these particular jobs. Cruise ships will often have the same performers do a Broadway style show one night and a pop/rock show the next using the same cast. So those performers must be adaptable as well.
Being adaptable as a performer is good. But as I said in my original comments, “know what roles you are best suited for both in physical appearance and voice type”. There is always going to be a vocal style to which you are best suited. </p>
<p>Vvnstar, I didn’t mean to imply that you were saying that cruise ships or summer stock hire untalented performers. I just believe that casting is done based on type–in terms of singing style and appearance. While a performer should have flexibility, they should still primarily audition knowing their voice type and what character/ style it best matches. They should not be all over the place auditioning for many different roles in an attempt to be cast in anything. Instead, a performer should hone in on their strengths. An actress hired to play Belle on a cruise may need to use her mixed belting voice at times in another revue where she is a chorus member and dancer But she still auditioned as Belle (a sweet comic ingenue soprano type) and needs to be the best at being "Belle"in order to be cast. They will then use her in additional minor roles once she has nailed Belle. </p>
<p>Once someone has an agent, the agent will only send them on specific auditions based on type. </p>
<p>I think we are saying the same thing. My point is that should you be asked to sing in styles that are not your primary type, you should have some training in those styles so you can sing them without damaging your voice. Even if only in a minor role. I have never suggested that anyone should be auditioning all over the place. I continue to say “know what roles you are best suited for both in physical appearance and voice type”. But you should know how to healthily sing in other styles should the need arise.</p>
<p>Yes. And, this is where dancing often comes into play. Because the perfect Belle may also be expected to dance in the chorus of some other show. And, there is always another perfect Belle at the audition who can. So yeah. </p>